Rules Questions thread

[Nekoatl]

I think the effects are supposed to end “simultaneously”, which for practical purposes, means that they all end in between two checks for state-based actions and therefore, the order in which they expire should not matter. Whether the Centaur returns to its owner’s control, reverts to a Crash Bomber, and then dies, or the Centaur reverts to a Crash Bomber, returns to its owner’s control, and then dies, makes no difference.

[OffKilter]

legitimate.

[Nekoatl]

@OffKilter

I dunno. Maybe it solves problems, but it seems like an extraordinary thing to add in an extra phase to a game like this, or to having things happen outside of the phases. But technically the phase where effects expire at the end of turn aren’t mentioned in the official phases either.

Another way to handle it would be to take a more MtG-like approach and have multiple steps within the phases. So, upkeep phase would look like this:

1. Effects expire
2. Gain gold
3. Trigger abilities

… and end phase would look like this:

1. Trigger abilities
2. Effects expire

… Although, I suppose this raises the question of whether it would create a timing issue with patrollers. If I cast Manufactured Truth to turn a Wisp into an Argonaut, have it take a little damage in a fight, then declare it as a scavenger or technician, am I supposed to get the patrol bonus when MTruth wears off? If not, this approach should work fine… and I’m inclined to think that’s how it should work, but I’m not 100% sure.

[Bryce_The_Rice]

No, because “units are not patrolling on your turn”, as per SharpObject somewhere in this thread.

[charnel_mouse]

@Nekoatl

If I cast Manufactured Truth to turn a Wisp into an Argonaut, have it take a little damage in a fight, then declare it as a scavenger or technician, am I supposed to get the patrol bonus when MTruth wears off? If not, this approach should work fine

This is correct, you don’t get the bonus. See the older post I “replied” to.

[OffKilter]

Okay, so I wrote an extension to the “Parts of a Turn” (pg. 6 of the rulebook). Please critique it if it’s inaccurate! If we’re happy with it I can put it in the thread I made about updating the rulebook.

Parts of a Turn

[Vega777]

I’ve made some suggestions, hope that’s OK. One question regarding “Upkeep” and “End of turn” abilities - there is one check for triggering all abilities in the respective phase, and one check only, is that true? For example, after Rememberer’s ability resolves, the new unit’s Fading (the upkeep part) won’t trigger, right?

[charnel_mouse]

Yeah, there’s a single check where they’re all triggered at once. The active player just gets to decide in which order they get resolved.

[OffKilter]

Awesome, all of your suggestions were accepted and appreciated!

[Vega777]

Can someone please give a reasoning for this:
Q: Rules Questions thread - #205 by PointyFinger
A: Rules Questions thread - #207 by Barrelfish

In general, leveling up changes the “printed” stats of a Hero, right?
Is there a ruling which says that a Hero’s stats do not change when leveling up, if previously set by an effect?

Thanks.

[Nekoatl]

The reasoning here is that Chaos Mirror applies a temporary effect that overrides the base printed attack of the hero. Leveling up the hero may increase its base printed attack, but the Chaos Mirror effect is still active, and so it still overrides the printed attack with the previously noted value. It’s an issue of priority being determined by the nature of the influence over the timing of the influence, i.e., rather than the level-up taking precedence because it was most recent, Chaos Mirror takes precedence because of its nature as an overriding effect.

I’m not aware of an official ruling that specifically deals with this scenario, but similar issues about what takes priority when multiple cards try to modify a value have been ruled on, and this explanation feels consistent to me, though I’m not completely confident about it.

[Vega777]

Thank you, I’m considering this the “official” ruling

[zhavier]

@Nekoatl

t’s an issue of priority being determined by the nature of the influence over the timing of the influence

This is exactly what has led to many arguments about Gargoyle.

[OffKilter]

From the balance discussion:

@Dreamfire

|Bird’s Nest|Trash birds when birds nest leaves play ← I’m on board, but why trash and not sacrifice (like the Hive’s Stingers)? Seems petty

I’m not sure, could someone explain the distinction between sacrifice and trash here?

[Vega777]

Sacrifice - card goes to the discard, Trash - removes it from the game.
Edit: Sorry, you mean when referring to Tokens. I can’t see what the difference would be.

[Nekoatl]

For tokens, the only practical differences between sacrifice and trash are that sacrifice triggers death trigger abilities and can be prevented by indestructible, two lives, “can’t be sacrificed”, and Soul Stone, whereas trash does not and can not.

[OffKilter]

Oh, so probably the “petty” is about losing patrol-granted on death triggers?

Probably would be more constructive to say that explicitly. @Penatronic was probably not thinking through that detail when he chose that wording, so giving the benefit of the doubt here would be welcome.

[Dreamfire]

Fair enough.

[Penatronic]

I used that wording because that’s what someone else had used when proposing that rule. Since they are tokens it does not impact if they go back to deck or leave the game, but if trashed means you don’t get patrol death benefits I think it would make sense to stay with that version of the nerf. I’m not dying on that hill if other people have a preference or strong opinion.

[Bryce_The_Rice]

I think EricF originally proposed it, but I don’t remember if he said trash back then.
I said trash just because it was the easiest way to word it at the time. I’m not hung up on it.