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Ideas about additionnal characters from Codex lore!

Hey ! We all love Yomi, and something I particulary love with this game is its huge casting of awesome characters with crazy abilities ! :smile_cat:
20 characters is really a LOT, and more characters would probably mean less balance (and less fun ?). Erf but Sirlin is the best in the world at balancing a competitive game, so maybe one day :stuck_out_tongue:

Nevertheless, I’m still wondering how Codex characters would be if they were in Yomi !

[details=1- Prynn]Prynn’s main theme is here interaction with time. Althrough she can sometime get things back from the Past, her main mechanic is Fading, giving her a melancholic flavour. What Fading makes me think about : Majora’s Mask, Braid, and nostalgia in general. Maybe Vanitas too.

Ok we could simply give her a mechanic of retrieving cards from discard, but that would not express the Fading mechanic. The time in Yomi is expressed by the deck size (at 0 time is out). Would some mechanic about that be actually fun to play with ?

I believe it worths a try ! Let’s begin by a character ability “Whenever someone has no card to draw from deck, Prynn wins”. Hey, sounds weird nah ? Of course that’s stupid for mirror matchup, and that should way amongst others for Prynn to win the game.

That would involve cards to make Prynn control her opponent’s deck size (mmm maybe a bad idea, it would be very had to balance the matchups against characters that draw a lot like Setsuki and characters that draw almost only 1 per turn such as DeGrey) or her own deck size (I think it’s better !). Ok so maybe some cards could make her discard/trash some cards from deck as additionnal effect ? So Prynn could be unique as a defensive (blocks make draw) but fragile character.

One other idea could involve discard/trash zone. Trash is maybe more related to Menelker and Oblivion, so why not giving Prynn some ability to make opponent’s discard cards go back in his deck ? In that way, she could dilute opponent’s deck with crap cards. Of course that ability would be insanely powerful against Quince, Persephone, Gloria and any character that can get cards back from discard, so we would have to rebalance things a bit somewhere[/details]

[details=2 - Vir]Vir’s main mechanic in Codex is to peek his next deck’s card to have a look on it and maybe play it. Ok that’s totally possible to transpose it directly in Yomi as a character ability. This could be something like “Draw phase : after having drawn a card, have a look on the next deck’s card.” and maybe something like “you can combat-reveal it in place of you combat phase card” or “you can use it as a combo or dodge followup” or something like that, but I honestly don’t think it would be as flavourful as a simple look on the future.

We could also imagine things related to forecast (an ace that deals its damages three turns later than when it’s played ?), I don’t think that it would be that fun to play.

In my opinion, Vir should just be a slow beefy character with short combos. I played a bit Street Fighter X Tekken, and Marduk is exactly the kind of character I’m thinking about. Something that would be fun to implement on Vir could be the juggles, as big combos set up after a throw. Maybe Vir’s throws could give him extra combo points and still KD even if it’s followed up by a combo ?[/details]

[details=3 - Vandy]Vandy’s main mechanics in Codex are sacrificing units, Faustian bargains (ya Garth too for this one) and huge units. There is also the “chain” theme of Terras Q and Metamorphosis.

One idea could be to make Vandy sacrifice her own arms and legs during the fight. I could imagine powerful aces, and playing the hearth ace would mean you won’t be able to play anymore hearth card during the game. Or an effect applying only to either normal or face cards.. Ok that’s a pretty violent mechanic that would add a lot of random on the game. I don’t know if it would be nice or not, but really there is a flavour behind.

Else I’d see Vandy as a very balanced character. Not too glasscannon, not too tanky, with good slow and quick attacks, good throws, dodges and blocks. Maybe some flying ability could be cool (“Draw : can decide to fly this turn, combat phase is skipped”) to let her delay the fight.

Or maybe flight could be an extension to crossup, opponents never being able to block odd normal attacks with even blocks and vice versa, even standing. And a undodgeable face attack to compensate it for balancing purpose. I believe that could be kinda fun ![/details]

[details=4 - Orpal]Ok main Orpal’s abilities in codex are attacks decreasing opponents’ strength and card depletion. That’s immediately transposable to Yomi too.

Maybe -1/-1 damages would not fit as a subtraction (because some characters do a lot of little damages and others do sometime big crushes), maybe not as a pure division too (halfing next round’s damages could benefit to poke characters such as Lum or Vendetta). So why not making some face cards substract a number from next round’s damage (or maybe entire’s game damage) and some face cards halve the next round’s damage ?
We can also stop thinking about damages and just decrease opponent’s speed. Why not disease runes making all opponent’s attacks and throws 1 speed slower during the entire game ?

Making opponent discard cards is an important mechanic for Orpal too, but as it’s already exploited by Menelker, Orpal should not be 100% on this idea. Discarding at random and making an opponent discard a card of his choice is very different too, so things to think about it.

Except that, I think Orpal should be slow, tanky and low damage, in pure Warhammer Nurgle style ![/details]

[details=5 - Garth]Ok Garth is mainly about summoning minions and making things ressurect. I’m not very inspired for this one, minions could be some walls that prevent damages or combos, and resurrect could mean using discard. Why not using opponent’s discard against him ? I mean, it’s open to read so Garth could use them to do effects or damages.

Garth is an anatomist so self-healing is also important. I’d see him with many dodges and poke, as a fool but vicious character.[/details]

6 - Bigby

Bigby is all about controlling, so preventing an opponent to use a certain type of cards (face/normal, attack/throw/blodge, hearth/spades/club/diamond, etc.) would make sens. He also has an iron fist, so DarthVader-style non-KD-ing throws are expected. Heavy hits and Balrog-style charge moves could be nice too (choosing the card you will play 1 turn in advance for some moves for example).

7 - Calamandra

Calamandra is all about furry and wild things. Forcing her to follow-up attacks throws and dodges with mandatory combo could be a nice transcription of non-temperance-style. I’d see her pretty much as T-Hawk, not only for the theme but also the straightforwardness. Making her have few dodges could be nice too.

[details=8 - Drakk]Mmm Drakk is vicious, Drakk is a drummer and Drakk fears nothing. I’d see some ability related with drums (ex: Resonnance, if there is an attack or throw clash, opponent takes 20 damages) and card to adjust Drakk’s speed to be in coordination with is opponent to trigger Resonnance.

I’d also expect a vicious opponent with dodges, fast attacks and attacking even knocked-down opponents.[/details]

[details=9 - River]Ok, this one is more “chevaleresque”. We need a quick fighter, with low-risk low-reward moves and a lot of dodges and poke. Maybe foil/rapier can transcribe in a “bleeding” ability. I don’t know what it would mean, making the opponent discard a card when touched, giving him damages over time or preventing him to use jokers for a turn.

We could also think about a “Parade” ability, that would damage opponents when River blocks them.[/details]

[details=10 - ?]We could also imagine a fresh new character on the cast, or an existing one in the lore of Codex ! I’m rating ideas in an order I’d have hype for them !

  • C : moderate hype — there are several Legendary characters in Codex, each one could make a new Yomi character. Galina Glimmer, Jandra, the Negator or Macciatus, the Whisperer. All of them are kinda fun, they are our C on our hype scale, meaning moderate hype.

  • B : high hype — Jade Fox is awesome. She is an old women, something that’s rarely seen in video games (I have only in mind Overwatch and some Naruto games). She is experimented, but old, so that would compensate her huge knowledge of the art of fighting. She is a teacher, so teaching could be her motivation to participate to Fantasy Strike. Teaching could also be part of her mechanics, opponents improving their abilities during time (more damages, combo points, card drawing, etc.).

  • A : awesome hype — Terras Q is the typical codex card : it’s totally overpowered, such as all Tech II cards are ! Getting out of chains could be an awesome mechanic to implement and wow, that beast is furious ! Definitely a character I would love to see in Yomi !

  • S : monumental hype — We all want him part of our favourite fighting card game. What is more, his chara-design would allow a lot of possibilities of his game mechanics. We could even implement abstract things and make him play Yomi completely weirdly. Why not playing Yomi with a Codex and deckbuilding during the game ? Or what about having an inverse priority circle, with attacks doing no damages but making draw, throws allowing huge combos and blocks knocking opponents down ? Let’s be crazy !

[/details]

How would you see them in this game ? :smiley:

2 Likes

Wonky idea for Prynn: maybe she starts with a super-massive hand of cards, but has to discard a card when she combat-reveals certain cards that are tagged with “fading”?

3 Likes

That’s an interesting thought! I was thinking more about the “Past” part than about “Fading” for Prynn, so my idea is that maybe if you win combat with one of her attacks (or throws?) you can put the combat-revealed card off to the side, and if you win the next combat that card can be used as part of the follow-up combo. The card would be sent to the discard either if it gets used or if you lose combat (though this could be changed if something else would work better, I think having a very limited time frame to use that card would be good thematically).

The idea is that her attacks can leave “temporal afterimages” of sorts, so even when they’re in the past they can have an effect on the present. I’d expect that having more Enders would make this more interesting, since unlike most other characters she could use the same card both as a combat reveal that can’t be followed up and in a combo. Maybe fading could be connected to some of her card-specific abilities instead? Something like discarding from your hand or deck to gain some benefit.

1 Like

If Prynn wins combat don’t discard the card she used. Next turn she plays a combat card face down as normal. Before cards are revealed she can choose to use either the card she just played OR the card she played last turn.

One of her face card abilities lets her choose after revealing.

Something like that?

I thought of that, but it feels like it would be treading on Quince’s territory a bit. Here’s my best attempt at wording my idea “correctly.”

If you won combat with an attack, you may put your combat-revealed card face-up on the table. If you win combat next turn on a later turn, you may use either side of that card as part of your combo (discard it afterwards whether or not you used it this way). If you lose combat, discard all of your cards face up on the table from this ability.

That last clause is worded the way it is to prevent either mirror-matches or any potential loopholes from causing weirdness.

3 Likes

So… if you don’t lose or win, the card stays in play, but can never be used because the ability that lets you use it only applied to the “next turn.”

Also, Acrobatics?

Possible ports of Prynn abilities:

Fading:
If your deck runs out of cards, you lose the game (do not check life totals). Whenever you combat-reveal a Block, Dodge, or Throw, put the top two cards of your deck into your discard pile. {and, some abilities might have “discard cards from your deck” as an additional effect (not cost, because you don’t want to deal with undoing it if the ability gets countered)}

Undo:
Combat Reveal: Both players pick up their combat card, and return to the “select combat card” step of this turn…

Rewind:
As your Joker/Bluff card: Prevent all damage dealt while this card was face down, as if this card was a Joker. If this prevents damage, the opponent draws 2 cards.

Slow Time:
Draw Phase: Ongoing: Players draw 1 less card in the draw step. Any player may voluntarily play “no-card” in combat to discard all copies of Slow Time from play.

3 Likes

That’s why I phrased the last sentence that way; I knew I must have missed a loophole or two. I had intended for it to ignore tie turns, so I shouldn’t have said next turn. Completely forgot Acrobatics, but that would be fixed by removing the next turn requirement as well.

I like that interpretation of Fading, but only if it’s alongside another innate (I’m assuming it’s innate, of course). You’d have to make her really good to balance out that big of a downside if it’s her only innate…

Undo, Rewind and Slow Time all seem really good, both for gameplay and flavor!

In Codex, she doesn’t barely has any redeeming qualities in her Hero card, and it could be interesting to have a character with great abilities / move stats, but a character card that’s nothing but drawback (if she gets an Undo that is better-than-Acrobatics PLUS extra (albeit bad) Jokers, having 70 hp and an innate that’s all drawback seems reasonable).

1 Like

That’s true, but it seems like that might be even harder to balance than a normal character, doesn’t it? Admittedly, I’m rather attached to my idea, and I think our innates would work fairly well together to make her a unique rushdown character, but using yours alone could be an interesting challenge for the community.

1 Like

Prynn in Codex isn’t a rushdown character, though. She’s one of the most controlling / comboing characters.

3 Likes

Fair enough. It just seemed appropriate for a character who’s “Fading,” but I’ll concede that point. Any more ideas beyond the abilities, then?

I really like the idea of Prynn being able to combo easily but having low damage on all her normal cards overall. This way her “fade” ability is not so abuse able or is this ability balance enough for her to do normal damage at normal speed. Also maybe having high damage on her face cards but having her J be a linker possible name “A Link to the past”?

This was the concept of a rough Bigby deck I drafted last year. It does not just match charge move theme, but also his narrative role of a corrupt judge with preconceived judgments.

4 Likes

Hey, interesting !
Have you a save of your work ? :slight_smile:

1 Like

It wasn’t particularly great but I can try to recover it.

Dusting off this old topic because of some discussion on Discord about how Calamandra might work in Yomi.

[details=Very Long Discord Discussion Inside!]> NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 10:17 PM
How exactly would Calamandra Moss from #codex play in yomi?
Tossing around a Tiger Uppercut and I suggested 0.1 speed.
What about Tiger assists? We have Kasumi in Tekken to base those off of.
Hobusu - Today at 10:19 PM
I was thinking animal assists in general, but with a focus on tigers.
For example, I think J should be Murkwood Allies (however you want to interpret that).
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 10:21 PM
Two sides, one that you can pump 3 times with any for as much damage as the other but comes out faster/combos easier?
Hobusu - Today at 10:21 PM
Sounds about right, yeah.
Then Q is Tiger Uppercut (which I’m visualizing as the tiger doing the uppercutting rather than Cala).
GRAG - Today at 10:22 PM
could conceivably have a tiger that works like some combination of 2v2 assist and a Quince thing?
Hobusu - Today at 10:23 PM
@GRAG OK, give me some rough draft of how that might work. I’m curious…
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 10:23 PM
Stalking Tiger/Predator Tiger
GRAG - Today at 10:23 PM
shrug, I dunno ^^
maybe add a Clockwork Soldiers element to it somehow?
landing a super summons a tiger, which can be used at some point later similar to a Quince mirror or 2v2 assist?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 10:24 PM
maybe has like 10 health but you can use 2s and 3s to attack with it, it takes damage like a Substitute in Pokemon?
GRAG - Today at 10:24 PM
maybe Predator and Stalking tigers each have two different RPS options or something? I dunno
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 10:24 PM
Hm!
So that’d be…K? A? D?
GRAG - Today at 10:25 PM
could be a separate thing like EX Lum’s side deck
Hobusu - Today at 10:25 PM
I think in that version Predator and Stalking each get their own card, or something.
GRAG - Today at 10:25 PM
she just has two extra cards
Hobusu - Today at 10:25 PM
Or that, I guess.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 10:27 PM
And she has…what, 65 health alone?
Hobusu - Today at 10:27 PM
No, that’s entirely too low.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 10:28 PM
yeah.
Hobusu - Today at 10:28 PM
Setsuki has 75, so that’s the bare minimum any character can ever have.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 10:28 PM
4/5 max level, so he/she definitely keeps up.
Hobusu - Today at 10:28 PM
Menelker’s only tied because of debilitating injury, and that’s everyone in the minimum health club.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 10:29 PM
Okay.
But relies on…not hiding behind tigers, but for them to even be there for the craziest mixups, combos, and damage.
Hobusu - Today at 10:30 PM
Let’s think about Stalking Tiger.
That doesn’t seem like it would become ongoing on hit to me.
If it hits, then there’s no need to continue stalking, right?
(from IRL tiger’s perspective)
I was thinking that maybe Stalking Tiger (possibly the other too) would become ongoing if the opponent blocks it.
Then it deals extra damage if you hit with certain moves, similar to Oni’s clockwork soldiers, but goes away if… something happens.(edited)
Not sure what makes it go away yet.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 10:38 PM
Getting dodged or hitting the opponent?
Hobusu - Today at 10:39 PM
That sounds reasonable for a first draft, at least.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 10:41 PM
Aces though…
Hobusu - Today at 10:42 PM
I think one side of Calamandra’s aces has to be Gigadon.
It’s too iconic to ignore, right?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 10:44 PM
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAH
Hobusu - Today at 10:45 PM
But how do we capture the variable cost of the Codex version?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 10:49 PM
…show me the card again?
Hobusu - Today at 10:50 PM
http://codexcarddb.com/card/gigadon
GRAG - Today at 10:51 PM
ace cost is based on current HP?
spend accumulated tigers or frogs to play Gigadon without some sort of penalty?
How does one convert the concept of “board presence” from a CCG-style game into something like a 1v1 fighting game, anyway?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 10:52 PM
Costing less Aces with Tigers and other summons already on the field.
Heh. Cal brings heavier resource management from her game into yomi!
Hobusu - Today at 10:56 PM
If it’s based on summoning other animals, then all of her specials (or at least most of them) are pidgeon-holed into being summons.
GRAG - Today at 10:57 PM
:thinking: .oO(Calamandra can’t summon pigeons… yet)(edited)
Hobusu - Today at 10:57 PM
Not saying whether that’s good or bad right now, just that it’s the obvious conclusion.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:03 PM
that need not be a bad thing…Cal is the one it word work for best, I would think
With the possible exception of Vandy Anadrose.
Hobusu - Today at 11:05 PM
Yeah, Calamandra’s uniquely positioned to be a good character for this concept.
The question is which animals do we want her to have?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:05 PM
Mostly Tigers.
Hobusu - Today at 11:05 PM
Definitely tigers and frogs, for starters.
You have to have frogs.
I could see her having Barkcoat Bear as well, but that might be too much?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:07 PM
maybe
Carpe - Today at 11:07 PM
If summons is her focus, maybe you can take inspiration from the Patrol Zone
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:08 PM
if she somehow keeps frogs with her…then can she do 1-3 damage unjokerable off a dodge if she sacrifices one?
Hobusu - Today at 11:09 PM
OK, so what if Murkwood Allies let you attach it and any pump cards you use to Calamandra, then you get the unjokerable damage by sacrificing one of the pump cards (or Murkwood Allies itself if you’re out of pump cards).
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:10 PM
Yes!
And use them for any other fun things you use summons for.
Hm…any 2-10 abilities?
Probably a good A-T-D-B spread…maybe a few less throws. More grabs than combo throws (like Lum).
Hobusu - Today at 11:14 PM
OK, what if the damage from summoned animals can be jokered normally, but you can play Behind the Ferns to make it unjokerable?
http://codexcarddb.com/card/behind_the_ferns
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:15 PM
Also amps it by…2? 3+2?
But then it is your followup with nothing else added.
Otherwise you could still try and combo.
Hobusu - Today at 11:16 PM
It wouldn’t affect tigers, though. Those are too strong in Codex to be affected.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:16 PM
Only frogs!
Sotek - Today at 11:16 PM
don’t try to restrict things to match too tightly if it makes them dumb
Hobusu - Today at 11:17 PM
Fair enough.
It is an amusing thought, though.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:17 PM
This isn’t exactly matching right now. I don’t think.
Interesting ability to go on a 2 though…
Hobusu - Today at 11:19 PM
So Behind the Ferns is a 2 ability that makes Frogs and Tigers (can Murkwood Allies summon a Beast?) unjokerable and lets them deal additional damage.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:25 PM
MA needs some sort of unpumpable big guy…or at least it could. And BtF could just work on frogs, or others too, but effectively yes. But only as a dodge followup.
Hobusu - Today at 11:26 PM
Maybe the Frog side is a fast Ender and the Beast side is a slow Starter that does the same damage in one hit as the Frogs will do without BtF?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:28 PM
so 5+2 jokered or 5+your attack/throw.
and they do 1+1 (+3any) or 4 damage on initial hit.
Sound right?
Hobusu - Today at 11:29 PM
I’m not quite sure which numbers are which there…
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:29 PM
or maybe it doesn’t do dodge followups.
Hobusu - Today at 11:30 PM
To be completely clear, I meant that Beast should do the same in one hit as the maximum number of Frogs would do if all of them hit without Behind the Ferns.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:31 PM
Ah. Uh…
…frogs do 1+1 on initial hit/summon and 3(+2 BtF) dodge followup…beast is 5 and stays to do something?
Hobusu - Today at 11:32 PM
Hm… So if we ignore Ferns for now, you can do a maximum of 4 damage with the frogs when Murkwood Allies hits, then the frogs attach and each do 3 damage as a follow up.
That’s what you’re suggesting right now?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:36 PM
yeah
too much?
I mean you need to think about how fast that can empty a hand
Hobusu - Today at 11:37 PM
True, but I’m just thinking of what can make Beast side not feel useless compared to Frog side.
Frogs can be comboed into, are fast, and can potentially deal up to 20 unjokerable damage from a single Jack (or whatever rank we settle on). On the other hand, Beast can deal 5 damage on hit and comboes into stuff, but that’s not very impressive…
GRAG - Today at 11:39 PM
At this point are we basically just making Jack-O
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:39 PM
well that means all 2s to do 20…
Carpe - Today at 11:39 PM
Pumpkin frogs!
Hobusu - Today at 11:39 PM
I don’t know, GRAG. Are we making Jack-O?
(I’m being serious, BTW.)(edited)
(Don’t know who that is.)
Carpe - Today at 11:40 PM
Jack-O’s whole gimmick is spawning pumpkin houses that summon minions to attack your opponent
Hobusu - Today at 11:40 PM
Oh, okay.
As you do.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:40 PM
it’s basically if we happen to dodge then potential unjokerable damage.
Hm…is Jack-O good flavor here?
Hobusu - Today at 11:41 PM
Right, but have we established what the “faliure state” of these summons is?
Clockwork Soldiers get discarded if you run a face card into a Block, right?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:42 PM
KD?
Hobusu - Today at 11:42 PM
Maybe just getting thrown, since that’s the natural counter to dodging.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:42 PM
get blocked, get dodged? Each one can flee from different things.
Hobusu - Today at 11:43 PM
So the mixup is between Cala cashing in her unjokerable Frogs of Doom and just punching you.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:43 PM
Stalking Tiger runs from getting successfully dodged, remember
yeah!
Hobusu - Today at 11:43 PM
That seems reasonable, then.
So we have two face cards and an ability mostly mapped out, and some idea of the direction we want to take at least one side of her ace.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:45 PM
Should we ask Sirlin if we’re being stupid or if he would have potentially added this if he still could?
Because I think I like the going direction of this.
Hobusu - Today at 11:46 PM
We don’t need to make this official.
Back in 1st edition apparently someone made their own entire cast of Yomi characters, and he was fine with it.
Carpe - Today at 11:46 PM
Oh yeah, I remember seeing that
They even had a poison character
Hobusu - Today at 11:47 PM
I seem to recall that a couple ideas for the Shadows characters came from fan-made characters, too.
Sotek - Today at 11:48 PM
yeah
Gloria. :stuck_out_tongue:
Hobusu - Today at 11:48 PM
Also Quince?
Sotek - Today at 11:49 PM
I forget exactly how much of Quince was actually fan-inspired but Gloria’s ace, the thing that makes her a character than functions at all, was entirely fan-inspired, heh.
well, the original version of it.
(The idea of “damage both players”, which is needed for a healing character to not be stupid)
Hobusu - Today at 11:50 PM
Yeah, that was a pretty important part of making her work at all, huh?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:50 PM
I see.
Sotek - Today at 11:50 PM
yeah lol
Hobusu - Today at 11:50 PM
Though it does make Gloria mirrors fun to watch.
Sotek - Today at 11:50 PM
without that ace she would not have been a possible character.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:51 PM
Okay, but I’d like to know if it’s good design from a pro standpoint.
Even for craps and laughs.
Carpe - Today at 11:51 PM
The main issue is that healers as stall characters are really aggravating/degenerate, because their entire game is to just negate yours, and Gloria’s Ace lets you convert that healing into an offensive resource. So yeah, pretty crucial.
Hobusu - Today at 11:52 PM
It’s hard to judge until we’ve fleshed it out enough to be playable, honestly.
Carpe - Today at 11:52 PM
A theorycrafted design will almost never be “good” unless you get incredibly lucky. Rule 1 of game design. :smiley:
Hobusu - Today at 11:52 PM
@NiGHTcapD {Shyne} Should one of us post what we have on the forums for archival/making sure we’re on the same page?
Carpe - Today at 11:53 PM
The idea definitely sounds interesting enough
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:54 PM
Yeah. Do it![/details]

This is left “as-is,” except that I made sure nothing was broken (like the link to Gigadon, for example). For now we seem to be closing in on two face cards and a 2* ability, and we have a rough idea of what half of her ace might become.

I just saw this thread and it made me think about Vir in the context of Yomi.

I think it would be pretty great if he had the innate ability to view the top 3 cards of his deck rather than just 1, after all Codex decks are a lot smaller than Yomi decks. I wonder if it might be better to have this ability at the end of turn rather than after he draws? I’m unsure what would slow the game down the least:

Future Sight: [End of Turn / Draw Phase] You may view the top 3 cards of your deck (you may not change the order).

I also imagine giving him “forecasted” facecards (possibly aces?), perhaps fulfilling similar roles as Geiger’s J and Q, and his secondary innate could also let him do more with them in a style that kind of references Geiger’s TD e.g:

Foreseen Strikes: When you win combat with a forecasted attack you may reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. If you do, your combat reveal becomes a 0CP linker, and you may continue your combo. You may include the revealed cards in your combo, any unused revealed cards are discarded.

This could also work really well with a “reach into the future” style ability card, which allows him to draw and/or set up his deck (and yes I gave it a silly name):

Back to the Future: [Draw Phase] Draw 3 cards and fetch a forecasted card from your discard pile, then put 3 cards on top of your deck.

GREAT SCOTT!

I’m imagining he will have 3 or 4CP with powerful but generally slow attacks, which then lets him have the ability “Unphase” somewhere in his kit to help with his problems. I could imagine it as a “forecasted” named dodge (meaning it can be recurred but at the cost of one of his “back to the future” ability cards), with the effect of:

Unphase: [During Combat] On a successful dodge attach this card to Vir. While attached the opponent is 3.0 speed slower. Discard when Vir is hit with an attack or throw.

Maybe it would be better speeding him up though for balance purposes? I’m just trying to riff of the idea that he moves normally but is unphased in time so everyone else would be at a disadvantage fighting him. Also he could be limited to forecasted moves, which would more likely guarantee it didn’t last for too long. He might need a forecasted throw in that case though.

How I see Vir working is flipping face cards and aces. Only one side can actually be played and if it hits it flips and stays in play. If Vir wins the next combat reveal the in-play face card also hits. No matter what happens in the reveal the in-play face card is then discarded.

Example Q:

0.0 speed, 6 damage, can’t combo attack

flipped side

  • speed, 10 damage, -

I could see him being a 2cp character. The numbers would require some serious tweaking and balancing.

2 Likes

This is such a cool idea that I don’t care how much tweaking it would take to balance, we need to explore this!

More progress on Calamandra! And with it, another copied log from Discord:

Another incredibly long conversation inside

Hobusu - Yesterday at 9:34 PM
@NiGHTcapD {Shyne} I’ve been thinking more about Calamandra, and having Stalking Tiger get discarded if she’s dodged won’t work because Rook exists.
sharpobject - Yesterday at 9:35 PM
what if she is KD
(I dont know what the rest of her character does xd)
Hobusu - Yesterday at 9:35 PM
Here’s the copypasta of the brainstorming session for her: Ideas about additionnal characters from Codex lore!
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 9:35 PM
oh…crud.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 9:35 PM
She’s super incomplete, though.
I only realized that because I’m trying to clean it up so we’re on the same page…
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 9:36 PM
dodged or KD…I like that.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 9:37 PM
The problem with KD is that we said Behind the Ferns ends if she’s thrown, and most characters KD on successful throw.
Also, do Frogs ever get discarded from anything other than damaging the opponent?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 9:40 PM
uh…on getting hit one leaves?
sharpobject - Yesterday at 9:40 PM
gloria’s cool mode turns off when she is thrown or can’t heal, but most of the time when she is KD it implies she can’t heal
so that is what I am stealing, since it is known that characters in general have enough access to ways to turn off healing sphere
BBB is maybe the worst in the game at "dodge or KD"
on getting hit is on some other character’s cool mode iirc
geiger
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 9:42 PM
She loses one frog per each “getting hit”, once per combat.
I think her thing is that she has all these different ways of getting help, and all these different ways of losing them; and some characters have better or worse removal options for each animal which can make building up a full-sized army difficult.
sharpobject - Yesterday at 9:44 PM
oh ok
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 9:44 PM
If she has nothing…what do I get her?
What would be most useful or powerful?
What would I be most able to activate against this foe?
What do I most easily stand to lose without using?
Those kinds of questions would and should be asked during play with a hand full of specials.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 9:47 PM
On a somewhat related note, I feel like the Frogs are a bit weak if they replace the normal dodge followup. I’m thinking if they deal 2 and you can also followup, and Behind the Ferns adds +3 instead of +2, it should work out nicely.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 9:48 PM
…should most summon specials do like 1-2 damage due to the animal’s power…and make the threat of losing them be what allows them to deal comparatively crazy damage?
Frogs deal 2 off a dodge plus your own folowup. BtF means you can’t followup (you suspect a joker!) but the frog does more.
Put it on a Ten.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 9:50 PM
Here’s an important question: What animals can she summon?
Frogs and Tigers, right?
Is there more than that?
(And is there any distinction between different types of Tigers once they’re summoned?)
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 9:51 PM
woodland thingy on the other side of frog?
(Yes I think so…?)
Hobusu - Yesterday at 9:52 PM
It’s hard to phrase Murkwood Allies correctly if you have a summonable Beast, since it has to be one ability that covers both sides.
I know because I tried, and while it did work, it looked way better when I removed the Beast.
I was thinking there shouldn’t be any distinction between different Tigers once they’ve been summoned, if only for simplicity’s sake. Cala is already becoming a complex character…
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 9:54 PM
Then…that one does straight damage.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 9:55 PM
I thought a 1 combo point starter would work well for the Beast of Murkwood.
(That’s what I’m naming that attack; the other side is Frogs of Murkwood.)
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 9:55 PM
And no tiger distinction, got it.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 9:57 PM
If the only way to trigger Frogs is to dodge, then maybe she needs more dodges?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 9:58 PM
yeah. 4 dodges sound good?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 9:58 PM
That should be plenty.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:01 PM
4 dodge ranks
hm…
2-10…9. 18.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:02 PM
So hear me out:
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:02 PM
A-T-D-B…
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:02 PM
What if the 4th rank was Stalking Tiger?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:03 PM
oh?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:08 PM
I was thinking that K could be Stalking/Predator Tiger as Dodge/Throw, respectively, and Stalking would just do a set amount of damage and summon a Tiger instead of having a followup.
Predator Tiger also summons a Tiger, of course.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:10 PM
Sure.
How about for 2-10 cards…
2DB+BtF 3AB 4AD 5AB 6AD 7TD 8TD 9AT 10TB+BtF was what I was kinda thinking…is this good or stupid?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:11 PM
FYI, I specifically chose Dodge/Throw so that it could be beaten by fast enemy throws… Which lose to Murkwood.
Wait, so Behind the Ferns is on both 2 and T?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:11 PM
…sure?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:11 PM
I don’t think there’s ever been an ability on two ranks before.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:12 PM
It doesn’t exactly do a ton anyways…
and…
okay I guess I’m just not sure whether to put it on one or the other.
2 probably.
They only have 2 jokers anyways…
That not a terrible normals layout?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:15 PM
I’ve been assuming 4 combo points, which seems relevant for straight purposes…
Seems fine?(edited)
I think you have too many dodges if we have Stalking Tiger as a dodge, though.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:17 PM
Yeah.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:18 PM
Now that I’m counting, you’ve got 5 ranks of normal dodges…
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:20 PM
But you can’t follow up ST with anything but its ability.
so…what would you replace?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:20 PM
Stalking Tiger can also trigger Frogs, though.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:20 PM
and who else if any has how many lots of dodges?
Oh!
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:21 PM
I’m not sure what a good spread is, but for this entire thing I’ve been assuming something is like Grave until we’ve decided otherwise.
(Purely because Grave is the “default” in my mind.)
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:21 PM
So…you can follow up ST with frog but not punch?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:22 PM
Remember, I said Frogs are additional damage.
So Stalking Tiger + a Frog could do a good bit of damage.(edited)
Especially if Behind the Ferns is active.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:22 PM
I like that.
So you can follow up any dodge with frog, but YOU can’t play an attack or throw after Tiger.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:24 PM
Right!
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:24 PM
So how would you update normal spread?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:24 PM
That’s… A bit hard to decide.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:25 PM
Fine.Specials then?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:25 PM
Is there a reason to go with something other than the Grave spread?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:26 PM
Well…I don’t want an attack on her (his?) 2. I can’t explain why.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:27 PM
Cala is defintely female.
Or at least, I’ve always interpreted Cala as female…
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:28 PM
As in I couldn’t if I tried. Make it a blockdodge with ability, put a dodge on her 6?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:29 PM
Why would she need a dodge on 6?
If anything, she needs compensation for the missing Attack.
sharpobject - Yesterday at 10:29 PM
grave spread is not enough dodges, and they’re on ranks that are too good to combat reveal
that’s my imo as a 5,6,7,8 dodger
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:31 PM
Four ranks of dodges (including one side of K) isn’t enough? I guess that makes sense for this build.
I’ll trust your judgement on this over my own!
sharpobject - Yesterday at 10:32 PM
oh idk
if one is on K that is way enough
I mean presumably grave players think of grave as having enough too
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:34 PM
Oh, OK.
I’m glad I’m not crazy to think that’s enough!
Also just checked Calamandra’s page on the Codex Database, and Sirlin’s ruling says “When her max level ability…” So she’s definitely female.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:34 PM
2DB+BtF 3AB 4AD 5AB 6AB 7TB 8TD 9TD 10TB better?
A3456 T78910 D2489 B2356710 Hm…no, too much Block.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:36 PM
Still 4 ranks of normal dodges (sharpo just said 3 is enough if K is a dodge).
How about 2BD 3AD 4AD 5AB 6AB 7AT 8TB 9TB 10TB? It’s just the Grave spread but with the block on 7 swapped for the attack on 2.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:38 PM
Hm…
I would want dodges tied together with some throws because then they won’t just be used as faster attacks.
Sigh…
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:40 PM
That still seems like a good spread in terms of proportions, so maybe just swap some things around?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:41 PM
Hm…
Agreed.
Though…if we make both 2 and 10 dodgeblocks, we can have even more dodges and abilities, and they would be a unique resource to manage. I like the prospect…5 blocks, 3even 2odd and each can be used as whatever form of defensive option or followup. Just a shitshot though…
In any case.
We going to purposefully unbalance her blocks for even-odd? It could open up options for messing with her kit…
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:46 PM
I’m fine with it.
What speed are her normals? x.6, or something else?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:47 PM
…4.
sharpobject - Yesterday at 10:48 PM
anything from x.0 on up is pretty safe if you aren’t giving her a 2 attack
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:48 PM
She had a slower set of normals, let her beat same-rank a bit more often.
…2 maybe?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:50 PM
Midori has x.2 normals, but his first normal attack is on 4… I could go either way here.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:50 PM
4 it is then.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:51 PM
Yeah, Lum has x.4 and his first normal attack is on 3.
So that makes sense.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:51 PM
So…specials time?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:51 PM
Sure.
Here’s what I have for Jack… Frogs of Murkwood: Attack 1+1 (+3 any) dmg, speed 2.4, 1 CP Ender // Beast of Murkwood: Attack (KD) 6 (3) dmg, speed 4.0, 1 CP Starter
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:53 PM
Yeah!
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:53 PM
(The KD on Beast is optional; I’m not attached to it)
Queen would be Tiger Uppercut: Attack 9 (2) dmg, speed 0.1, 3 CP Ender
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:54 PM
J*: Murkwood Allies. For each Frogs of Murkwood, attach it and any cards used to pump to your character. blahblahablahb dodge followup.
Or if too powerful, then only attach pumpers…
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:55 PM
Murkwood Allies: If you won combat and Frogs of Murkwood deals damage, attach it and any pump cards to Calamandra as Frog cards. Whenever you dodge an attack or Joker, discard one attached Frog to deal 2 damage.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:55 PM
naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
YES!
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:56 PM
Did we decide for sure how Frogs get knocked off?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:56 PM
losing combat where you get hit loses one frog…?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:57 PM
Should she have to take damage? Changes whether dodges can reliably remove frogs.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:58 PM
…yes.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:59 PM
Murkwood Allies: … Whenever you lose combat and take damage, discard one attached Frog.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 10:59 PM
doesn’t Geiger have to take damage to remove his crazy mode?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 10:59 PM
No, he just needs to get hit.
Then again, Temporal Distortion is a bit stronger than this…
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:00 PM
Agreed.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 11:00 PM
Was my Q earlier okay, by the way?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:00 PM
Yes!
Hobusu - Yesterday at 11:01 PM
OK, I have most of the K done, but I need a speed and damage amount for the throw side.
Also whether it knocks down.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:01 PM
no knockdown.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 11:01 PM
Alright.
Probably speed 8.x, based on other special throws on non-grapplers?
Speaking of, are her normal throws x.6 speed?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:02 PM
Yes…I guess.
speed of less than 8? 6 something, but doesn’t do as much damage on hit?
…your call.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 11:04 PM
Hm…
Oh, that means we need to figure out how much her throws do.
7 damage for normal throws seems fine?
Oh, we’ve gone all this time without ever defining an innate ability for her…
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:17 PM
OH SPIT
Hobusu - Yesterday at 11:18 PM
It’s fine! I figure one possible solution is just to move the part where the animals deal damage and get discarded to her innate, and have the card abilities just be attaching them.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:19 PM
That can work and clear up a thing or two.
Tigers always do more than frogs though.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 11:20 PM
Right, that just makes sense.
But should they trigger the damage in the same way or different ways?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:20 PM
5 with no capability to BtF?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 11:21 PM
It seems lame if a frog does the same damage as a tiger because of behind the ferns, though…
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:21 PM
Uh…tigers trigger on attack and don’t leave after, but can be jokered to make them leave anyways?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 11:22 PM
Hm… That’s interesting.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:22 PM
Tigers 4 then?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 11:22 PM
What makes tigers leave? Joker can’t be all, since BtF makes them immune to those.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:23 PM
Tigers can’t be BtF though?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 11:23 PM
Then frogs with BtF deal more damage than tigers?
2+3 vs 4 or 5?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:24 PM
Tigers are forced to leave if you use them in a combat reveal and are jokered…or if your attack is dodged (or blocked, so that Rook isn’t left out).
4? 5? I’m not sure anymore myself.
Balance!
Hobusu - Yesterday at 11:25 PM
So if you win combat with an attack, tiger does damage. If you lose combat with attack, tiger leaves.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:26 PM
Yes.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 11:26 PM
Also, this is less a balance issue and more a flavor issue with their strength.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:26 PM
But not if you’re outsped; he stays.
I see…4, but they can swipe again so they can potentially do more than any given frog.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 11:27 PM
The problem with them leaving if the attack is blocked is that it’s not how real tigers work… They’ll just keep pacing in front of you until you show signs of weakness.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:28 PM
Then…dodged, or knocked down?
Hobusu - Yesterday at 11:28 PM
That would probably be fine.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:29 PM
But with two tigers, a dodge into a throw would not remove both.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 11:29 PM
…I’m getting deja vu. Didn’t we discuss dodge and KD earlier?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:29 PM
Yeah, we did.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 11:30 PM
We’re good at remembering things!
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:30 PM
:rollsafe:
Aces.
Hobusu - Yesterday at 11:33 PM
Gigadon is one, right?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Yesterday at 11:34 PM
Yeah. Flavor…use up summons to make it cost less or do more damage.
Other is for if you don’t have shut to but it with. One Ace, wimpy but fast? Slow but damaging? Or another summon or summon modifier?
Hobusu - Today at 11:37 PM
I don’t think that having abilities for both sides makes much sense.
So it’s probably just an attack of some kind…
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:38 PM
Yeah…
She had some fast stuff. Let’s make it a hard read against a throw.
Slow, 14(6) seem okay?
Hobusu - Today at 11:39 PM
Sounds fine.
Obviously this will all need tested at some point (if we can finish making a rough version tonight, I can take it to my card club tomorrow).
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:40 PM
Yay!
What to do with Gigadon…
Hobusu - Today at 11:42 PM
Has to cost 4 aces by default, I’d imagine.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:42 PM
More. Frogs and tigers equal aces here and here only.
Or just 4, yeah.
Hobusu - Today at 11:43 PM
Wowowow, the only character in the game who needs more aces than exist in a deck to play super?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:43 PM
Gotta be some way to use it without summons, right?
I guess
Hobusu - Today at 11:43 PM
That would be interesting… But yeah, needs to be possible without summons.
Just, not that good without either the discount or extra damage.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:44 PM
How much should GD do anyways???
Hobusu - Today at 11:44 PM
…No idea.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:45 PM
30…+3(any frogs)…+6(any tigers)?
Hobusu - Today at 11:45 PM
Sounds good for a first draft, at least.
Can frogs reduce the cost, or only tigers?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:45 PM
WE ROUGHLY DONE
frogs can but you’ll need more of them to be an Ace.
And you need a hand Ace to play it anyways.
Hobusu - Today at 11:47 PM
Right, you need at least one as the combat reveal card…
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:48 PM
2 frogs for one more Ace, 3 for any other replACEments?
And one tiger equals one ace?
Hobusu - Today at 11:48 PM
What other replacements…?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:49 PM
Replacing ace costs.
Hobusu - Today at 11:49 PM
Tiger = Ace is good, 2 frogs = 1 ace may be OK.
Still not sure what you mean, though. Three of what replaces an ace?
There’s no more summons.
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:50 PM
Three frogs to replace more than one ace. 2 for one, 5 total for two, 8 total frogs to replace three aces.
Hobusu - Today at 11:51 PM
That sounds hard to explain in a single ability text box…
Let’s keep it simple, please?
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:51 PM
Sorry.
2-4-6 then.
Hobusu - Today at 11:51 PM
Maybe being close to midnight here is making it harder on me, though.
But we’re so close…
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:52 PM
I look forward to your game night?
Hobusu - Today at 11:53 PM
Afternoon tomorrow, really.
I’m actually starting it by letting them watch my IYL game at 1:30 EDT.(edited)
NiGHTcapD {Shyne} - Today at 11:53 PM
If I’m available on discord when you do…
Hit me up!
Hobusu - Today at 11:54 PM
I’ll try to remember to do that!

Based on that conversation, I made the rough draft below as we went. Please let me know if you have any suggestions, whether it’s filling in any question mark spaces or improving the overall design! The sooner the better – I’d like to playtest this tomorrow after my IYL game.

Rough Draft of Calamandra

Calamandra Moss

Tiger Magus

Life: ??
Combo Points: 4
Normal Attack Speed: x.4
Normal Throw Speed: x.6 (7 dmg and KD, 2 combo point Starter)

Ferocity: While Calamandra has a Frog card attached, if you dodge an attack or Joker you may discard a Frog to deal 2 damage to the opponent. While Calamandra has a Tiger card attached, if you hit with an attack you may discard a Tiger to deal 4 damage to the opponent. (Damage from Frogs and Tigers can be prevented with Rewind Time Jokers.)


2: Block/Dodge – Behind the Ferns [Draw Phase] – Ongoing: Attached Frogs (and Tigers?) do +3 damage each and are immune to Rewind Time Jokers. Discard this if you get thrown.

(Remainder of spread to be determined…?)


Jack
Frogs of Murkwood: Attack 1+1 (+3 any) dmg, speed 2.4, 1 CP Ender
Beast of Murkwood: Attack (KD) 6 (3) dmg, speed 4.0, 1 CP Starter

Murkwood Allies [During Combat]
If you won combat and Frogs of Murkwood deals damage, attach it and any pump cards to Calamandra as Frog cards. Whenever you lose combat to an attack or throw and take damage, discard one attached Frog.


Queen
Tiger Uppercut: Attack 9 (2) dmg, speed 0.1, 3 CP Ender


King
Stalking Tiger: Dodge
Predator Tiger: Throw 6 dmg, speed 8.?, Can’t Combo

Eye of the Tiger [Combat Reveal]
If you dodge an attack or Joker with Stalking Tiger, don’t play a follow-up card. Your opponent takes 6 damage and is knocked down. If you win combat with either side of this card, attach it to Calamandra as a Tiger card. Whenever you lose combat to a dodge or get knocked down, discard one attached Tiger.


Ace
Feral Strike: 14 (6?) dmg, speed ?.?, (Can this combo? How many aces?)
Gigadon: 30 (5) dmg, speed ?.?, Can’t Combo AAAA

Gigadon [Combat Reveal]
You may discard attached Frogs and Tigers to reduce the number of aces that must be discarded for this attack by one for every two Frogs or one Tiger you discard. This attack does +3 damage for each Frog and +6 damage for each Tiger you have attached (after discarding for the Ace cost).