Seems like you should? “Until end of turn” means that there is no time after the effect is created that is during your turn in which the effect does not apply. So the first moment where it doesn’t apply must be… after your turn.
“End of turn: Do X.” actually happens during your turn though, haha.
That moment can still be before the opponent’s turn though and patrol zone bonuses only apply during the opponent’s turn.
If a unit deals damage as - 1/-1 runes, does armor prevent runes from being added? Would a unit with 1 armor fighting a unit with 2 attack that deals damage as - 1/-1 runes get 1 rune or 2?
Armor eats damage, regardless of what form the damage takes. So 1 armor would stop one -1/-1 rune.
Think of it as “any damage dealt is done in the form of -1/-1 runes.” If no damage is dealt (i.e. it is prevented by armor or other means) then no -1/-1 runes are applied.
That’s interesting because deathtouch works the other way, right? Even damage to armor causes a kill.
While I’m here, how does overpower interact with deathtouch? Do you deal exactly 1 damage to the first thing and then overpower even if it has more health?
Overpower, iirc, is considered “combat damage”. So while I can’t think of anything that has both Overpower and Deathtouch, I’d see it working as follows:
I had a Tiny Basilisk with a +1/+1 counter from Blooming Ancient and Blooming Elm in play (which gave it overpower). I assumed that it would deal 1 to the first target, which is lethal damage even if it has more health (since 1 damage kills a thing if you have deathtouch), and then 1 damage to another target, killing that as well. I would have won that game anyway, even without that play, but I’d like to know for future reference whether that play was correct or not. Hopefully we can get a more official ruling because I can see either interpretation as having merit.
Yes, but it’s specifically called out in the description of Deathtouch that it works that way. I hear you, I think the description for “deals damage to units and heroes in the form of -1/-1 runes” is ambiguous as it’s written. I’ve asked the question before and have had it confirmed that armor and other forms of damage prevention reduce the number of -1/-1 runes “dealt.”
Overpower
Excess combat damage this would deal to a patroller
hits something else this could attack. (It will not
cascade to a third thing.)
The exact argument is over what is excess. Excess could be any amount past lethal, or any amount past their hit points. Personally I would agree with the interpretation of excess being anything past lethal, so Strix’s play would be valid. But I agree that there is nothing clearly indicating what excess means. Stampede uses the same word, Excess.
@mysticjuicer, i think the fact that Poisonblade rogue has armor piercing specifically called out is strongly supporting the ruling that armor prevents the runes.
Here’s a couple of posts from the old forum’s rulings thread:
So…combine them, and you get your answer. Deal the minimum lethal damage (with deathtouch that’s 1, barring something weird) and the rest goes to overpower.
That’s consistent with M:tG’s analogous abilities (deathtouch/trample), for what it’s worth.
Edit: Note that apparently the Focus Master interaction was awkward enough for an clarification specific to Focus Master, as @lettucemode points out below.
Additional edit: Nope, nevermind, apparently these rulings can’t be combined. There’s an update from @sharpobject below that Deathtouch does not allow you to assign fewer damage before redirecting the rmaining damage with overpower, citing his recollection as Sirlin’s ruling.
Also, just found this one (I updated his link to use the codexcarddb site):
[quote=“sharpobject”]Armor reduces damage, even if it is dealt in the form of -1/-1 runes, or dealt in the form of turns you must skip, or dealt in the form of stealing your gold. There might be some confusion from the overloading of the term “damage” to mean both the event where a thing is harmed by a certain amount AND the stuff that is left on the thing afterwards to keep track of how alive it still is. Armor reduces the former thing, which is the only way to get the latter thing, but doesn’t always result in the latter thing.
I could say “This works the same way as in mtg” but that would be pretty unhelpful.
This card also has armor piercing when attacking though!![/quote]
Maybe we should stop calling damage* damage and call them ‘hurt tokens’. Anyone?
Just throwing in a clarification - the interaction between Overpower and Focus Master was discussed and clarified since @sharpobject made that post. Focus Master cannot save a patroller who is attacked by something with Overpower if any excess damage is redirected somewhere else. Codex Card Database | Focus Master
Carry on!
Hurt tokens is actually super difficult, since token is a rules term for a type of unit generated by other cards. Runes is also a rules term, so we can’t go with damage runes. Chits sounds like my high school Spanish teacher swearing.
I call all the pieces “markers” to try to be clear.
Although if we wanted to disambiguate rules terms, wow, tech is so context-dependent.
The game doesn’t include any moments outside of all players’ turns.
IIRC Deathtouch does not allow you to assign fewer damage before redirecting the remaining damage with overpower. I think this one is from @Sirlin
That’s how I’d always regarded it in my mind: that the deathtouch effect occurs immediately after regular combat, and regular combat rules make attackers do as much damage as they can automatically.
I expect it to surprise a lot of MtG players.