Blue (thehug0naut) vs Black (Frozenstorm) balance testing

Codex Codex play-by-forum
142

My actual complaint with that is keeping the flavour of zero haste in blue (barring liberty gryphon).

143

Iā€™m open to any and all buffs to Constable and GotG.

I absolutely disagree that Insurance Agent needs a nerf. At least until we nerf Hyperion, Tricycloid, Maestro, Grounded Guide, Crashbarrow, Captured Bugblatter, Drill Sergeant, Blooming Ancientā€¦ basically, every other powerful Tech 2 card.

3 Likes
144

Until law is not dominating the tournaments, there should be indeed no nerfesā€¦

1 Like
145

Yall make a good point and in fairness, IDK what nerf Iā€™d even propose (capping the gold or maybe only allowing one insurance rune per unit I guess?)

So anyways, what say you @thehug0naut ? Musketeer buff out, new buffs in, same black nerfs in? You start or me?

2 Likes
146

Sure, Iā€™m game to try anything at this point. Letā€™s try your haste version of constable for now, but Iā€™m with @Bryce_The_Rice in preferring the Arrives or Attacks version.

Test 5 Changes
Deteriorate Cost ā†’ 1g, Cannot target illusions
Dark Pact Cost ā†’ 1g
Vandy Midband Remove Resist 1, Cannot fetch Metamorphosis
Vandy Maxband Remove Targeting
Guardian of the Gates If attacked, disable the attacking unit or hero after combat
Arresting Constable Add Haste. Disable ability targets a unit or hero

My gut reaction is that there would be a feasible Tech II plan vs Black with these buffs, but I remain concerned about how I realistically get to Tech II, especially vs P1 Black.

I think that tells me that we probably need to test more of you starting. Hopefully my Blue play is also improving so that will help the tests be more useful!

1 Like
147

hm, imo insurance agent is the only decent law card. Iā€™d leave it as it is and i propose another change:
Justice Juggernaut: retains Unstoppable and canā€™t patrol but loses Two Lives and gains haste instead.
It would make more law stuff hasty and useful the turn they are played so that they can swing the match while two lives is useless since it just partly made up for it being useless cuz arrival fatigue.

148

We shall try me as P1 then, GL HF!

Game 6 Player 1, Turn 1

P2 Black vs P1 Blue

Current balance patch changes in effect

Starting Hand

Sacrifice the Weak
Deteriorate
Jandra, the Negator
Summon Skeletons
Poisonblade Rogue

Events of Turn:

Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (4)
  • Tech 2 Cards in (except on turn 1)
All Teched Cards

Main:

  • Jandra, the Negator (1)
  • Worker (0)
Workers

Poisonblade Rogue

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 3 Draw 5

Board Info:

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20

In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger:
  • :exhaust: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Jandra, the Negator (3/3)

Economy Info:

Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 0
  • Disc: 3

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 5
End of Turn Hand

Skeleton Javelineer
Graveyard
Thieving Imp
Pestering Haunt
Skeletal Archery

End of Turn Discard
My Thoughts

Jandra start seems okay yea? Not sure what else Iā€™d do w/ this handā€¦

149

Yes indeed GLHF, hope I donā€™t die too quickly :sweat_smile:

P2T1

StartingHand Workers

STARTING HAND

Spectral Aven
Reputable Newsman
Traffic Director
Porkhand Magistrate ā†’ Worker (Too expensive vs StW)
Bluecoat Musketeer

WORKERS

Porkhand Magistrate

NextHand

Lawful Search
Spectral Aven
Manufactured Truth
Arrest
Jail

Discard

Bluecoat Musketeer
Traffic Director

Tech 0 card(s)
Get Paid - ($5)
Worker - ($4)
Bigby - ($2)
Newsman, choose 2 - ($0)

Float ($0)
Stash 1, Discard 2, draw 4

Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: L1 Bigby Hayes 2/3A [Stash]
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Reputable Newsman 0/3 [2]

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 1
  • Disc: 2

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 6
Thoughts

All my units except the pretty much unplayable Building Inspector in the first hand is not a great split. Newsman or any hero is safe from death in SQL but will undoubtedly get whomped by Jandra on his first turn.

Options to think about:
TD + Newsman (choose 2), patrol TD in Technician - this lets me guarantee Newsmanā€™s survival till next turn but I wonā€™t have any good options for Manufactured Truth if I do that.
Aven + Newsman (choose 2), patrol Newsman in SQL - keeps Aven in play but denies me a good target for MT as Newsman will be on 1HP most likely.
Bigby + Newsman (choose 2), Bigby in SQL, Stash Aven - sets up Manufactured Aven / Jandra next turn (assuming I draw and keep MT) and takes StW off the table. Bigby is cheap so fine to use as a patroller early.

I think on balance that Bigby line probably is worth a try Gives me a couple of outs for MT to copy and heā€™s a decent blocker.

150

No rush, but action to you @FrozenStorm

1 Like
151

Thank you for the reminder! Lost track of this, sometimes I make my next move in my head, but forget to write it down :sweat:

Game 6 Player 1, Turn 2

P2 Black vs P1 Blue

Current balance patch changes in effect

Starting Hand

Skeleton Javelineer
Graveyard
Thieving Imp
Pestering Haunt
Skeletal Archery

Events of Turn:

Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (5)
  • Tech 2 Cards in (except on turn 1)
All Teched Cards

Crypt Crawler, Hooded Executioner

Main:

  • Thieving Imp, discard #1 of 5 (2)
  • Worker (1)
  • Tech 1 (0)
Workers

Skeletal Archery, Poisonblade Rogue

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 3 rs Draw 5

Board Info:

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • Tech1 HP: 5

In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Jandra, the Negator (3/3a)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger: Thieving Imp (2/2)
  • :exhaust: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • nothin

Economy Info:

Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 3
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 6
End of Turn Hand

Sacrifice the Weak
Pestering Haunt
Skeleton Javelineer
Summon Skeletons
Graveyard

End of Turn Discard
My Thoughts

Newsman on 2 is a bummer, Crypt Crawler I think stays a must, Hoodie could help me build some card advantage so weā€™ll go for that.

152

@thehug0naut did it happen to you as well? Mental reply but no turn written down? No rush just lmk if you need more time

1 Like
153

P2T2

Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH

Scribe (3HP patroller and card draw)
Scribe (ditto)

STARTING HAND

Spectral Aven ā†’ Worker (I donā€™t see a world where he doesnā€™t have a Crypt Crawler in deck, Jail might be good with Law Tech II so letā€™s keep it in for now)
Manufactured Truth
Lawful Search
Arrest
Jail

WORKERS

Porkhand Magistrate
Jail

NextHand

Scribe
Lawful Search
Traffic Director
Building Inspector

Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($6)
Worker - ($5)
Tech I - ($4)
Arrest Jandra - ($2)
Bigby kills Imp, takes 2, you gain 1g
Midband Bigby - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 2, draw 1, reshuffle, draw 3

Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • L3 Bigby Hayes 2/4 [Stash]
  • Reputable Newsman 0/3 [2]

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 5
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 7
Thoughts

I forgot Jandra death doesnā€™t kill Imp so actually this is kind of horrible. I could play Aven + MT and trade in Bigby to kill Jandra but I donā€™t really like going down on cards like that and giving him the tempo, assuming a Crypt Crawler or Sickness is incoming.

Other reasonable plan would seem to be Arrest Jandra, kill Imp with Bigby then midband him to keep him safe from Sickness. I could risk leaving him on 1HP and hope for no Sickness but I think Iā€™m most likely giving away free levels at that point.

154

Something like that! I thought I posted and hadnā€™t :joy:

1 Like
155

hehe I have done that one as well ^ _ ^

Game 6 Player 1, Turn 3

P2 Black vs P1 Blue

Current balance patch changes in effect

Starting Hand

Sacrifice the Weak
Pestering Haunt
Skeleton Javelineer
Summon Skeletons
Graveyard

Events of Turn:

Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (6+1scav)
  • Tech 2 Cards in (except on turn 1)
All Teched Cards

Soul Stone, Dark Pact
Crypt Crawler, Hooded Executioner

Main:

  • Vandy (5)
  • Summon Skeletons (2)
  • Skeleton Javelineer (1)
  • Worker (0)
Workers

Pestering Haunt, Skeletal Archery, Poisonblade Rogue

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 2 Draw 3 rs Draw 1

Board Info:

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • Tech1 HP: 5

In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger: Skeleton (1/1)
  • :exhaust: Technician: Skeleton (1/1)
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Vandy (2/3 lvl 1)
  • Skeleton Javelineer (1/1)
  • Jandra, the Negator (3/3)

Economy Info:

Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 5
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 7
End of Turn Hand

Hooded Executioner
Crypt Crawler
Deteriorate
Soul Stone

End of Turn Discard
My Thoughts

Whelp, buncha skeles should help keep Vandy safe, should be able to hit back decently next turn.

156

@FrozenStorm Iā€™ve cast Lawful Search but your end of turn hand is empty! While that would be delightful for me, I assume youā€™ve had a copypasta disasta

157

Indeed a whoopsie forgetting to copy it in, I have:

Hooded Executioner
Crypt Crawler
Deteriorate
Soul Stone

158

P2T3

Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH

Guardian of the Gates (tech in the boosted cards, see what happens)
Insurance Agent (ditto)

STARTING HAND

Building Inspector ā†’ Worker (Unplayable vs Deteriorate)
Traffic Director ā†’ Stash
Lawful Search ā†’ Manufactured Truth
Scribe ā†’ Jail

WORKERS

Porkhand Magistrate
Spectral Aven
Building Inspector

NextHand

Traffic Director
Arrest
Bluecoat Musketeer
Scribe

Discard

Arresting Constable
Guardian of the Gates
Lawful Search
Manufactured Truth

Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($7)
Lawful Search, draw a card, look at your hand - ($6)
Scribe, draw - ($4)
Worker - ($3)
Jail - ($0)

Float ($0)
Stash 1, Discard 1, draw 3

Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Scribe 1/3A
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger: L3 Bigby Hayes 2/4 [Stash]
  • :pschip: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout: Reputable Newsman 0/3 [2]

In Play:

  • Jail -/3

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 0
  • Disc: 4

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 8
Thoughts

So at the point of LS and looking at my cycle speed I donā€™t see the point in spending gold to tech up here as I probably get blown up with this relatively weak board and my chances of drawing a Tech II next turn are relatively low. That means I have 5g to spend after workering.

Iā€™m tempted to play Scribe, draw, and then see what I get to determine how I spent my remaining 3g. Scribe draw has a 50/50 chance of giving me a 2-cost unit, which would be the best outcome there for stuffing up his ability to attack well. Jail also works I think, as long as I patrol with boosted Hoodie, Jandra Overpower and Vandy doom in mind. Arrest would let me use MT to copy Jandra and counter attack but if I do that to kill Jandra Iā€™ll blow up my own board too, so it only makes sense if I can do the counter attack first. Worst case, if I do draw Arrest I could worker it and then put a couple more chump blockers.

So Jail it is on the draw, but is it definitely survivable? Max Vandy is a serious threat multiplier here but Iā€™m struggling to see a way he can manage to use Soulstone and maxband to break my Jail or Tech I. Best case, if he worker skips he can Overpower 2 damage via: Deteriorate on SQL Scribe for skeles to safely kill (-1), midband Vandy kills Newsman (-2), Soulstone Jandra (-2) then maxband Vandy (-2) to make Jandra a 6/6 to kill Bigby and Overpower 2 damage. Jandra then reverts to a 3/3 after doom. Only way he gets more efficient is if I let him use Sparkshot to save one attack and upgrade that to 3 overpower to break Jail. That synergises ok with Stashing TD and getting Tech II up next turn, since it lets me tech in two more cards before I reshuffle.

I guess now we cross everything and hope for the best!

159

Jail, interesting!

Game 6 Player 1, Turn 4

P2 Black vs P1 Blue

Current balance patch changes in effect

Starting Hand

Hooded Executioner
Crypt Crawler
Deteriorate
Soul Stone

Events of Turn:

Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (7)
  • Tech 2 Cards in (except on turn 1)
All Teched Cards

Skeletal Lord, Sickness
Soul Stone, Dark Pact
Crypt Crawler, Hooded Executioner

Main:

  • Deteriorate Scribe, Vandy and Jav kill it (6)
  • Jandra kills Newsie
  • Worker (5)
  • Tech 2 Necromancy (1)
Workers

Soul Stone, Pestering Haunt, Skeletal Archery, Poisonblade Rogue

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 2 Draw 4

Board Info:

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • Tech1 HP: 5
  • Tech2 HP: 5 NECRO

In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger: Skeleton (1/1)
  • :exhaust: Technician: Skeleton (1/1)
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Vandy (2/3 lvl 1)
  • Skeleton Javelineer (1/1)
  • Jandra, the Negator (3/3)

Economy Info:

Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 1
  • Disc: 5

Gold:

  • Gold: 1
  • Workers: 8
End of Turn Hand

Summon Skeletons
Dark Pact
Graveyard
Sacrifice the Weak

End of Turn Discard
My Thoughts

Gambit for Meta OR Skeleton Army next turn sounds like a plan I can work with, so we go with that.

160

I know itā€™s not all that good vs Black but maybe it helps slow you down

P2T4

Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH

Hallucination (To kill Jandra and explode his board)
Free Speech (Since itā€™s his favourite)

STARTING HAND

Traffic Director
Bluecoat Musketeer
Scribe ā†’ Reputable Newsman
Arrest

WORKERS

Porkhand Magistrate
Spectral Aven
Building Inspector

NextHand

Arresting Constable
Hallucination
Guardian of the Gates
Scribe
Free Speech

Discard

Arrest
Bluecoat Musketeer
Traffic Director

Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($8)
Scribe, reshuffle, draw - ($6)
Newsman, choose 2 - ($4)
Tech II Law - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 3, draw 5

Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Scribe 1/3A
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger: L3 Bigby Hayes 2/4 [Stash]
  • :pschip: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout: Reputable Newsman 0/3 [2]

In Play:

  • Jail -/3

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Law)

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 2
  • Disc: 3

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 8
Thoughts

So his board is essentially the same, only he can Garth in a unit as well as attacking. Skeletal Lord is pretty spooky here actually, with the +1/+1 to all his Skeles.

I donā€™t think I can realistically tech up and stop him breaking it, but perhaps I can tech up and give myself enough outs to stifle his play and get back into this. If I tech in hallucination I can kill Jandra and wipe his board. Free Speech also stops him doing much of note while I get Tech II up again. Seems like a good enough plan, now to Scribe, see what I draw and how best I can patrolā€¦

Newsman is a great pull, even if it requires a worker skip. Hs 3HP and ability will likely do a lot of work for me by stopping StW.

161

Weā€™re both experimenting with Tech2 this game eh? :slight_smile:

Game 6 Player 1, Turn 5

P2 Black vs P1 Blue

Current balance patch changes in effect

Starting Hand

Summon Skeletons
Dark Pact
Graveyard
Sacrifice the Weak

Events of Turn:

Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (8+1float)
  • Tech 2 Cards in (except on turn 1)
All Teched Cards

Metamorphosis, Dark Pact
Skeletal Lord, Sickness
Soul Stone, Dark Pact
Crypt Crawler, Hooded Executioner

Main:

  • Midband Vandy, hit Scribe for 3, take 1 (7)
  • Jav hucks his spear at Scribe and takes it down
  • Skele runs into Bigby
  • Jandra kills Bigby, Vandy maxbands and dooms Newsman and Skeleton
  • Garth (5)
  • Heroā€™s Hall (3)
  • Worker (2)
Workers

Graveyard, Soul Stone, Pestering Haunt, Skeletal Archery, Poisonblade Rogue

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 3 Draw 1 rs Draw 4

Board Info:

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • Tech1 HP: 5
  • Tech2 HP: 5 NECRO
  • Heroā€™s Hall HP: 4

In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Skeleton (3/3a)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger:
  • :exhaust: Technician: Garth (1/3 lvl 1)
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Vandy (4/5 lvl 5)
  • Skeleton Javelineer (1/1)
  • Jandra, the Negator (3/1)

Economy Info:

Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 6
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 2
  • Workers: 9
End of Turn Hand

Thieving Imp
Crypt Crawler
Summon Skeletons
Sacrifice the Weak
Sickness

End of Turn Discard
My Thoughts

Meta sounds about right XD Dark pact to help dig it up
ā€¦
OMG ded draw ā€¦