Fine I’ll whittle down my poll results a little bit.
I think in your case going with “my best characters” and “characters no one else has picked” would be good.
what i’m saying is don’t remove your vote from lum and geiger until someone votes for them
It’s not bragging if it’s true. I don’t think we really want to discourage anyone from playing certain characters simply because they aren’t “elite” at them. I also don’t think anyone intentionally went there since it is nice to have a clear picture of player/character specialties.
In fact, it would be in error to discount the “less experienced” players feedback with characters. I kinda lean on Sirloins side of prioritizing flavor and elegance where possible, and at least on that, anyone can comment.
I showed up…
Unfortunately I have to sideline myself until I get a new mouse. My left click is going bonkers so I can’t rotate cards reliably. For today’s match I had to borrow a mouse.
Thanks for the games @Niijima-san - sorry for getting there late.
If the rulesless-mode wasn’t completely broken, it would actually be a really good way to do this kind of balance testing! Unfortunately, the rulesless-mode is completely broken: it doesn’t accurately show the # of cards in each player’s hand, it doesn’t always show when someone has combat revealed a card, and it somehow allowed me to draw into a 5th Ace after all my Aces had been played.
Still it was fun to play some Gloria vs Zane. In two games we didn’t manage to get a K clash, so not much was learned. I still don’t understand why Q-throw becoming a 3CP ender meant it’s pumps have to be restricted to face cards. I’d revert that change. I think the idea was that it allowed higher damage off AAA starter, but that’s not actually true, it just makes +1 damage more consistent. No real reason to change its damage profile either, imo (from 4+6+6 to 6+5+5).
Oh, that’s disappointing.
I believe the original reasoning for the +2 Face change was to help Arg. Some people expressed concerns that making Q-throw a 3CP Ender would give Gloria a slight damage buff, which obviously hurts Arg a bit, and that making it only pump face cards would counteract that since Gloria face cards are quite good in the Arg mu. Anyways I think Arg can take it, particularly given the “Bubble Shield prevents healing” buff. I think I agree with you that +2 any is better.
I suggested the more front-loaded damage profile to make it more efficient when used just for its throw ender property to end Midori’s Dragon Form. This was the reason we decided to make Q-throw a 3CP Ender in the first place, so if we believe the 3CP Ender change is worthwhile then making the damage profile slightly more front-loaded seems logical.
Fair enough. Just ending dragon form seems like it’s own reward to me.
Rulesless mode being broken is quite annoying. However, it is still possible to test some interesting changes that the player can deliberately limit themselves to in the normal mode. These include:
- Time Stop throws are Enders
- Junkshot removed
- Crash & Flow is limited to once per turn
- Bag of Tricks can’t recur 7s
I played 3.5 games this evening, all as Zane. Went in with the suggested nerfs plus a max anarchy speed nerf. I wanted to get some across-the-board impressions of how pre-joker nans felt and see if I felt any less powerful. I went against DeGrey, perse, and Gloria x2.
The Persephone game broke when the rulesless client glitched out so that one was a wash.
Vs DeGrey and I just dodged into MA on DeGreys wake up where I would have normally played it raw. It could have literally been any speed slower than .2 in that case.
Two games vs Gloria and the k nerf never reared it’s ugly head. Either I steamrolled Gloria easy or I lost every combat.
I don’t think any of my opponents actually used pre bluff nans tactically at all so I don’t think I gathered any useful data whatsoever.
Yeah, in the Gloria MU it doesn’t seem to matter, since Zane damage is very. In other MUs I would expect it to help guide my Blue Burst/bluffs.
Can you hit me with the wall of text version? I don’t really understand how that gives her more blocks and throws? Unless I’m missing something, she still has all her blocks on throws, but also gets a good normal throw on 6.
Could we create a list of how rulesless is broken, so that if begging Thelo works it would make his job a lot easier and less of a diversion? Kinda like a minor spring cleaning patch.
For what it’s worth, I think DeGrey is mostly fixed by making the 7 attack an ender, maybe one that does more damage and possibly knocks down. The real reason PCP is so ridiculous is the AA confirm afterwards.
Sorry DeGrey, you shouldn’t just beat Dodge/Throw mixup for free for the same damage. You should have to actually decide what you are trying to beat when you play it, rather than just saying “lol just play the 7, even better if you TR attacks first”.
Idk if 12 health is still too much with that change, or if AA needs to lose MHG even. Just make the 7 a KD ender so you don’t just die when you play anything that isn’t an attack.
I saw Mad King suggest that change earlier, his version made 7-attack a 9 damage KD Ender. My concern is Gloria. Giving DeGrey a KD ender could make the Gloria mu even worse.
If it would in fact hurt the Gloria mu, I think we could make 7-attack a 9 damage Ender (leaving out the KD) and that would be functional. Either way, this is a much bigger nerf than the changes @Hobusu and I proposed, but I wouldn’t discard it immediately just for that.
My one requirement is that whatever 7 nerf we go with encourages more creative use of DeGrey’s 7s. Imagine actually using 567 straights or revealing the attack side of 7! If the nerf discourages topdeck hero play that’s icing on the cake.
Also I think that if 7 were nerfed to the degree Leontes suggests, DeGrey’s life/TR wouldn’t need any nerf at all. TR is weaker if 7 is less scary.
This is really unfortunate
I had mucked about in it very briefly using my laptop and my PC and it had seemed ok, but I hadn’t tried to actually play a full game, so that probably explains why I thought it was more useable.
I guess we’re going to have to petition thelo to fix it, or rely on IRL testing now.
This is what I generally think is going to happen if Anarchy stays at 50 damage. It’s just too much for Zane to have something so strong on top of his explosive vortexing combos.
I don’t know why everyone is up in arms about pcp. It literally just gives DeGrey the fastest throw in every match-up. Someone has to have it, pcp means it’s him.
You just use it like a 0.0 speed throw, basically.
Because he usually has the fastest attack in the matchup, the best throw punish AND best attack punish in the game. Does he also deserve the literal best throw in the game? Should all of these be hitconfirmable into Aces for 30+ damage?
TR also enables it so hard. Not all characters can just Anarchy/TPoS/TD through a TR/PCP turn.
I can’t tell if your post is /s. Maybe it is. But idk, maybe Rook should have the best throw in the game?
P/CP is ridiculously high risk/reward, but there are a few other cards on par with it for risk/reward status and people seem fine with them.
P/CP is THE card that encourages people to attack DeGrey, which then opens up his A dodge game. If it is weaker, DeGrey as a whole gets weaker by the same degree. Maybe everyone is fine with that, but I just want to put that out there that any nerf on this one card is a direct nerf onto the viability of DeGrey.
Well removing MHG from aces goes a long way to preventing these scenarios.
Also his fastest attack doesn’t combo into aces. It is still good though.
I say nerf TR a little bit, remove MHG from aces, and then pcp is way less of an issue by extension.