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They’re better than Jaina. That’s not quite the same thing. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Gloria, Lum and Vendetta do the recurring speeds better.
Zane does 2.3 normal crush better.
Grave & Menelker are quite literally better Jaina.
BBB does better Chip into Blocks than Jaina.
Quince does better Spins than Jaina.


Now do the other 10 characters. :smile:


Wait, are you saying that you thought Arg had the advantage against Quince?! :open_mouth::open_mouth::open_mouth:

I mean, yes? 2.x speeds for days, 7* vs his big combos, tied throw speeds, counter for the 2*… in hindsight I can see how I was wrong but it certainly doesn’t seem awful.


You know, it makes sense when you put it like that but it’s been so long since I’ve thought about the matchup in those terms that it didn’t cross my mind how it would look to someone unfamiliar with the matchup. :sweat_smile:

For the uninitiated: what’s so bad for Arg?

Also, what’s up with Jaina/Quince? Data has it as roughly even. I got blowed up as Quince, but I’m a bad Quoncer.


Thanks @migohunter for ruining quince’s matchup data.

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@migohunter vs the best Jaina looks a lot like the global numbers.

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I would like to say I also have a pretty good history in the Quince/Jaina matchup!

As for Quince/Arg, Quince has a lot of KD and that helps prevent Hex and disrupt a significant portion of Arg’s game plan. All of Quince’s spins are empowered against Arg. He doesn’t deal a lot of burst damage so Q-Spin is a bit less risky than usual. K-Spin is wildly oppressive and practically forces Arg to spend his 7’s as throws. Arg winning combat with them doesn’t lead to a great deal of damage so Quince isn’t too concerned but losing them to the attack side of Quince’s mix-up can be devastating. J-Spin is good per the usual. It can help apply a little more pressure to block, especially with Bubble Shield which honest J avoids, even cross-up sidesteps, and throw removes.

Patriot Mirror setups can be especially nasty because his best answer to Dodge+7 throw is his own 7 throw and that only clashes while simultaneously empowering K-Spin. This pressure then opens up your ability to dodge + normal attack and beat out the throw in the rudest way possible. All in all, Patriot Mirror setups are safer than usual.

Finally, Quince has good burst thanks to his Queen. 67Q++ is 30 damage and you have plenty of ways to try and open Arg up with a 6 attack. Beyond that, you have Consent of the Governed and 567J for 30 and 27 damage, respectively. None of these is especially difficult to accumulate and all of them can bypass blocks via cross-ups.

As for Arg’s counter, it will obviously be spent on 2 Truths. That said, Quince gets a replacement card and the ability is just shunted to the bottom of his deck which can be re-shuffled back in by powering up for Aces. Broadly speaking, I like to wait for Arg to counter at least two before I power up and shuffle them back into the deck, which, in turn, opens up our burst damage.

I’ll let the Arg players contribute their opinions on counterplay. I have my own thoughts on those but I don’t really play Arg.


Oni has better K+++ :wink:

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@Castanietzsche 3-4 @mastrblastr
:gloria: :psfist: :pschip: :vendetta:
:jaina: :psfist: :pschip: :vendetta:
:onimaru: :psfist: :pschip: :gwen:
:quince: :pschip: :psfist: :troq:
:troq: :pschip: :psfist: :midori:
:quince: :pschip: :psfist: :jaina:
:argagarg: :pschip: :psfist: :geiger:
thx for the matchs ! I have tons to learn on this game ahah
salty as hell, hope to climb looser bracket to get the return match :wink:


I thought it was diminishing Swiss

No, sorry, we got enough folks (and votes) that I went double elim (easier to manage, too)

Okay. Guess I won’t be here long

You and me both. Don’t worry, I’ll run another tournament soon. Just gotta figure out what format is next.

When is Summer Smash?

That’s for @Jengajam to decide.

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I’ve never seen that name. He still around?

the summer