fixed that for you…
4 Likes
Lol amen to that.
Black P1 T5
8 Gold +2float
Techs
Gargoyle, Soul Stone
2x Metamorphosis
Shadow Blade, Hooded Executioner
Dark Pact, Bone Collector
Hand (drawn fairly, first two turns didn't really matter other than what I workered)
Deteriorate
Shadow Blade
Bone Collector
Metamorphosis
Metamorphosis
Javelineer pings Onimaru, goes to graveyard
Metamorphosis, Demon Vandy and Garth appear, fetch Gargoyle from discard (4)
Replay Haunt from graveyard
Bone Collector (2)
Make a Skeleton (1)
Garth kills Scribe, takes 3 damage, tower has spotted for the turn
Vandy breaks tech 2, your base to 15hp
Worker (0)
Dc 2 Draw 3 rs Draw 1
Workers
Metamorphosis, Jandra, the Negator, Summon Skeletons, Skeletal Archery, Poisonblade Rogue
SQL BC (3/3+1armor lvl 1)
Scav Skele (1/1)
Techn Garth (5/3 demon)
Backline
Vandy (6/5 demon lvl 5)
Gargoyle (0/2)
Haunt (1/1)
Graveyard (3hp, holding Javand imp)
Base 20
Tech1 5
Hero’s Hall 4
Hand 4
Deck 3
DC 0
9 Workers
0 Gold
Thoughts
I increase my odds of drawing Soul Stone 5% by not workering (assuming I’m going to StW and Dark Pact next turn, which I almost certainly am), but I think it’s best to keep up on econ after doing all the math.
…
Drew soul stone NP nice!
Next Hand
Hooded Executioner
Sacrifice the Weak
Dark Pact
Soul Stone
Given that, i do:
Manufactured Truth to copy aven
Oni to L5 (5), kills BC
Avens kill Garth
Oni to max (4)
Worker (3)
Rebuild, discard 2, draw 3, rs, draw 1
Float 3 gold
Patrol in some way, I’ll do the math later. It loiks like Oni on SQL can only die to Vandy or a Vandy spell, so probably that, with soldiers in scav/tech/lookout, but if you see something better, assume I did that. The problem with putting Oni in a non-sql slot is that he can die to Gargoyle + Haunt + Skeleton.
I do think killing Garth and leaving your haunt+GY alive is the right play, since it reduces you to one stealthy guy.
After doing math, I ended up deciding to worker (See edit above)
As for your patrol, I think Oni SQL is probably best? Tbh I’m not that interested in killing him, the line I was pursuing by hanging Garth out to dry is Soul Stone Garg, break tower, vandy re-breaks tech 2, haunt pings base. That puts it at 10, which is within kill range next turn for Gargoyle Tower re-break + Vandy + Dark Pact, and I can clear Aven and Newsie w/ StW, and block ducks with chumps. If vandy is backline, you can’t see her so can’t kill her, and without aven can’t stop Gargoyle either XD
Having you max Oni is ideal for me, keeps Quince and Bigby away 
I think a better line for your turn 5 is to suicide Oni, Bring Quince and free speech if you can, if not then Judgement day, if not that then…? You don’t have great options from this position I don’t think, even with Free Speech Garg + Haunt still kills the tower and gives me Garth + Vandy + Dark pact as a finisher
So, my only hope there would be to have Arrest + MT in hand, and go:
Arrest Bone Collector (7)
Aven kill Jav
MT Newsman into a BC (6)
Newsman trades with Garth
Max Oni (1)
Oni trades with Vandy
Worker (0)
Patrol with Skeleton & 3 ducks.
This matchup is bonkers right? Like to not have workered Arrest and MT by turn 5 (as P2) AND draw them together in a 4-card hand is pretty long odds! You’d have to have workered Porky, Jail, Musketeer and … Inspector? Lawful Search?
Anyways that obviously does put black in a tricky spot, I suppose I’ll have to go for a Death and Decay wipe? So with 10 Gold and back up to 5 cards, you’d be at 3 cards and 10 gold incoming (or more if I kill stuff?)
I whiffed deteriorate here again too, newsman covered it just long enough to keep this aven alive a suspiciously long time
Black P1 T6
9 Gold + 1 scav
Techs
Death and Decay, Twilight Baron
Gargoyle, Soul Stone
2x Metamorphosis
Shadow Blade, Hooded Executioner
Dark Pact, Bone Collector
Hand (drawn fairly, first two turns didn't really matter other than what I workered)
Hooded Executioner
Sacrifice the Weak
Dark Pact
Soul Stone
Shadow Blade (techn)
Orpal + maxband (3)
Resurrect Javelineer + Sacrifice him, we’ll pretend you patrolled everything but sql, skele in elite? So kill elite with -1/1, that cascades into Aven + Scav kill, you’re at 11 gold next turn (2)
Gargoyle Awakens, bangs your tech 2 down to 2hp (1)
Haunt suicides to bring the tech 1 to 3hp
Worker (0)
Dc 4 Draw 2 rs Draw 3
Workers
Shadow Blade, Metamorphosis, Jandra, the Negator, Summon Skeletons, Skeletal Archery, Poisonblade Rogue
SQL Orpal (2/5+1armor lvl 6)
Backline
Gargoyle (3/1 flying)
Bone Collector (3/3 arrested)
Graveyard (3hp, holding Jav Haunt and imp)
Base 20
Tech1 5
Hero’s Hall 4
Hand 5
Deck 3
DC 0
10 Workers
0 Gold
Thoughts
He’s left with 2 soldiers and a 3 card hand, no MTruth or Aven or Newsie in hand possible. I have a bigger board and ability to triple kill buildings next turn unless he free speeches, in which case I just build more board while re-summoning Imp. He’s such long odds to build tech 3 then protect it over the next few turns, and he’s already fixing long-ish odds to make these plays! It’s crazy how favored black is with random draws.
I have good enough odds at death and decay or Dark pact with just teching 1, so I’ll grab a baron as well in case he does manage to Free Speech. Imp + Baron + Vandy + Gargoyle activate ought to be enough to keep away too many gryphons.
…
Dark Pact, nice.
Next Hand
Metamorphosis
Deteriorate
Twilight Baron
Dark Pact
Hooded Executioner
Very true. Although Jail and Porky are auto-workers for this matchup, so that’s easy. In this game, Musketeer and BI probably get workered T3-T4, and my 10th worker is “something” - possibly the first Macciatus, and I tech in the 2nd copy?
Yeah 3 of those are the “auto” workers, but maybe 20% of the time your hands don’t line up to worker exactly those? And then yea the 4th worker maybe you’re having to hit a tech card or something 30% of the time, especially with a hand that small.
It’s just so easy for things to go poorly. And even if you teched 2x Free Speech by end of turn 3, you’re mildly unlikely to be holding one here? This was a fat cycle for you, and Death and Decay next turn is like guaranteed to end the game, and maybe I’m missing something but Free speech is your only available answer to it no? Newsie’s in discard, MTruth is in discard, you have no haste and only 2 soldiers to swing with at orpal, Oni’s unavailable to 2x elite training can’t happen, I guess if you had 2x Jurisdiction you could technically afford that but that’s all you’d be able to do this turn…
It’s just so hard for blue! Even if you can fix the draws to be above-average!
I’m following the game with keen interest.
It’s kind of alright if the Blue vs Black match-up isn’t close to 50/50, it’s just one of the many, many possible match-ups. But when the decks are in the same box, a man would expect otherwise. It’s a little disheartening I think, for new players (such as myself and the guy I usually play with) to experience this.
6 Likes
I told him… I said they should be shipped differently, that they could change it…
Yeah I brought it up back in march/april of '16 when @YoungBuck and I were first trying the 3 pre-packaged matchups… I think Blue and White play interesting together, and purple deals with Black’s shenanigans reasonably well.
Idk @EricF you got something up your sleeve for this Death and Decay line?
1 Like
Has this discussion reached the seemingly inevitable conclusion?
Yeah, I don’t see any possible line following “do nothing on turn 1 and 2” that wins.
That’s unfortunate. I wonder why this issue didn’t come up prominently during the years of playtesting?
Most likely some sort of late breaking change that wasn’t fully regression tested.
4 Likes
Yea I feel like black must have gotten a little buffed late in dev, and it didn’t look huge but it actually was. Deteriorate costing less, or Garth’s skeletons getting less expensive, or his midband getting an extra HP, or Dark Pact’s base damage getting reduced a little… Something like that.
Game is still hella fun though, just not quite as balanced as hoped I think.
2 Likes
Probably something with Metamorphosis, is my guess. All that other stuff has been at the same cost since before the Patrol zone existed. Maybe @Bryce_The_Rice or @Sotek can enlighten us?
2 Likes
I wasn’t aware you were close to the history of development
I played it at FSX like 4 years ago. Back when Illusion Tech II was really really good because you could use a Tech building the turn it built, so having a bunch of cheap & strong Tech II things was a good way to keep your Tech II alive.
Also at the time: Macciatus made Illusions completely untargetable. And Crypt Creeper could target any unit, even if it didn’t already have flying, but that was insufficient to beat the army of Illusions.
4 Likes
I wasn’t on the dev team or anything, I just had the beta cards from a while back and was on the patreon.
The only thing I can recall was Garth not needing to exhaust for skeletons, but I’ll see if I can trawl through the old stuff and find something.