Rules Questions thread

How about

A
You obliterate all remaining enemy units except for Law griffin. The opponent has no tech buildings, no addons, no buildings
The only remaining things are the flyer and flying base. You cannot hit any, so attack whiffs

B
You obliterate all remaining enemy units. The enemy has morningstar pass and you have no money.
You cannot redirect attak to the pass. I guess you can redirect to the base for 0 damage

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These look correct to me. You have to choose something to attack in case B, but it isn’t very useful.

I tapped lobber a bunch to kill his base

If something with fading dies from fading in a technician/scavenger spot, do you get the benefit?

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I don’t think so. Fading happens during your upkeep, and at that point it wouldn’t be patrolling any more (things aren’t patrolling during your turn)

4 Likes

Only if it’s done using an effect that removes fading runes from it while it’s still in the patrol slot. Not if it becomes your turn and then dies from fading.

Things only die from fading if the controller removes the last rune. If another player does, it just hangs out indefinitely.
So, it is impossible to ever have something die from the last rune being removed while it is patrolling.

I know that RAW that’s what the card says, but has this actually been confirmed as a ruling? We’ve never played this way (and I’m pretty sure it came up a couple of times during RACE…)

So if you play 2vs2, you can make your team mate fading units normal units by removing the last time rune from them?

If you have Second Chance, you can play Rememberer for 5 gold and summon 6 units from your discard??

It was confirmed earlier in this thread, but hasn’t been added to codexcarddb.com, which it should be @sharpobject under the general Fading rulings.

If you have some way of removing 6 runes. You can’t just do it willy-nilly, you need some game rule that lets you remove them.

Oh I see. So it is not like the drill seargent removing his +1 runes as he likes.
But the ability for Rememberer to remember herself and comes back to life with another 3 runes is weird thematically.

Drill seargent has an ability that specifically costs “remove a +1/+1 rune from this card” --> do stuff.

Rememberer’s ability is “whenever you remove a time rune, do stuff” which means that it is reactionary as opposed to when you feel like it.
I’m not 100% sure but I’m pretty sure if someone else removes the time rune you get no benefits (past vs past OP).

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It says in the database that you will get the benefit if something else removes the time rune.

“If the reason you remove a time rune from Rememberer isn’t because of the fading ability, but rather something else such as Time Spiral, Seer, or Tinkerer, then Remember’s ability to give you a unit with fading from your discard pile still DOES trigger. — Sirlin”

Edit. I guess you are right. If opponent removes the time rune, it is not you who did it, so the ability will not work

Edit2. A way of reading the ability will tell you that if your opponent has rememberer and you remove a rune from it, you get to play a unit from your own discard :smiley:

Uh, hang on, what? Didn’t you explicitly kill something in a tournament game by removing its time rune?
This seems veeeery wrong.

2 Likes

Agree that this seems wrong, both thematically and gameplay-wise. I have seen (and played) a number of games where an opponent removes time runes from a fading unit to kill it. It… just feels right. Is it an intended effect or a ruling based on the semantic wording of the card?

4 Likes

My understanding (which may be wrong) was that if you ever had a unit with Fading and it gets its last rune removed for ANY reason, it dies.

I thought the only reason for confusion on this was the bad wording on Prynn, where it has been ruled that her midband (making the opponent skip their next discard/draw phase) which applies when she “dies from fading” actually only happens when she loses her last rune “naturally” during upkeep - and here it was said that “dies from fading” does only refer to this particular way of removing the last rune. BUT she - and anything else with fading - DOES still die whenever the last rune is removed. It’s just not called “dying from fading” any more :confused:

I may have got myself totally confused and be wrong though :wink:

3 Likes

I searched the rules thread for fading questions and most of them are related to Prynn instead to fading units in general. The only two times the specific issue of fading units dying when their last time rune is removed by an spell or ability is mentioned are at posts #347 and #385.

In the first instance EricF defines fading as two abilities that include the unit being sacrificed when the last time rune is removed, no requirement of the controller being the one removing it. (I can’t find any directions on how to quote here, guidance would be appreciated)

EricF, post #347

Fading is two separate abilities:

Arrives: Put X time runes on this. When the last one is removed, sacrifice this (even if this no longer has Fading).
Upkeep: Remove a time rune from this.
side note: “Dies from fading” means “dies as a result of ability #2 removing the last time rune”

In the second instance EricF asks this exact question on whether the sacrifice clause in the fading ability can be satisfied by someone not controlling the unit, and got the following responses:

Zhavier, post #386

Wow, that would be weird. I’d like to suggest the last sentence be Errata’s to “When the last time rune is removed, sacrifice this.”

rabid_schnauzer, post #389

I know I pointed out that in 2HD, Seer, Timkerer and Time Spiral can be used to keep your partner’s Fading cards from ever triggering the sacrifice clause of fading months ago.

Though at no point was it confirmed officially that it is intended for fading units to not die when their last time rune is removed by an opponent. And MVashM’s example concerns the technique a fading unit’s controller uses to remove the time rune and doesn’t mention the opponent.

yes he did! he used many times seers to kill opponent’s fading argonauts and prynns!D:
EDIT: unless i am remembering it wrong and he used it to remove the time runes just to have them fading on opponent’s turn. @____@