Blue (thehug0naut) vs Black (Frozenstorm) balance testing

P1T5


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH

Insurance Agent
Free Speech


STARTING HAND

Jail → Worker (Needs lots of ancillary pieces to be good)
Scribe
Reputable Newsman
Boot Camp → Arrest


WORKERS

Building Inspector
Porkhand Magistrate
Spectral Aven
Jail


NextHand

Insurance Agent
Manufactured Truth
Boot Camp
Free Speech


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + float - ($8)
Newsman, choose 2 - ($6)
Bootcamp Vandy, draw - ($5)
Oni breaks HH, your base to 14
Worker - ($4)
Tech II Law - ($0)
Musketeer hits Tech I to 4HP

Float ($0)
Discard 2, reshuffle, draw 4


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite: Traffic Director 2/1 [Untargetable]
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • L8 General Onimaru 4/3 [Frenzy 1, Resist 1]
  • Reputable Newsman 0/3 [2]
  • Bluecoat Musketeer 1/2

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Law)

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 7
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 8
Thoughts

This turn I want to cycle at least one card to maximise my draws, so I should play at least one of Scribe or Boot Camp. It also means I can decide between workering Jail or Arrest.

I have the “control” options of Jail, Newsman and/or Boot Camp on Vandy so Oni can break Tech I or HH. I think I probably want to take the risk of boot camping Vandy and breaking his HH as its really disruptive and makes his next turn much more predictable. Presumably he would ideally do something like “cast Dark Pact, cast StW, attack with Vandy, play Tech Is, boost Hoodie if you draw it”

If I break HH, play Newsman to block StW and patrol TD in Elite he would need to draw and boost 2xHoodie and play StW to be able to kill Oni with Vandy. Thankfully that costs a minimum of 12 gold and he only has 11. Untargetable really is powerful vs Black.

After that opening I will be left with 5 gold so I can Worker+Tech II or Worker+Scribe+HH. I think I’m probably best trying to get ahead on Tech as I’ve already teched in one Insurance agent and it makes sense to add a second for more card draw and gold generation. I should be able to cycle really rapidly with all the card draw in deck (6/11 cards if you count Insurance Agents) but I’ll be reliant on Insurance scams to get above 8 gold to spend. That means my other teched card needs to be chosen really carefully.

Sensible options would be: Second AoW, Free Speech, Injunction, a disruptive Tech II card. JJ is definitely the best Tech II unit but it won’t be an immediate impact and it’ll be too expensive without Insurance scams. GotG really sucks vs Black, Constable is way overcosted and while Censorship Council is pretty good vs Black, I need to be careful I don’t run out of patrollers.

On balance I think Free Speech is probably the best card to Tech. Quince plays really well with Justice Juggernauts and it lets me maintain a block on spells while potentially using Newsman for insurance scams.

Did you mean Newsman?

1 Like

This is not great…

Game 5 Player 2, Turn 5

P2 Black vs P1 Blue

Current balance patch changes in effect

Starting Hand

Doom Grasp
Abomination
Thieving Imp
Sickness
Sacrifice the Weak

Events of Turn:


Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (9+2float)
  • Tech 2 Cards in (except on turn 1)
All Teched Cards

Dark Pact, Metamorphosis
Hooded Executioner, Cursed Ghoul
Doom Grasp, Abomination
Crypt Crawler, Sickness


Main:

  • Thieving Imp, discard #2 of 4 (8)
  • Vandy kills TD, takes 2
  • Maxband Vandy, doom Newsman and Imp (4)
  • Hero’s Hall (2)
  • Worker (1)
Workers

Sickness, Skeletal Archery, Graveyard, Poisonblade Rogue, Pestering Haunt

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 3 rs Draw 5

Board Info:

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 14
  • Tech1 HP: 4
  • Tech2 HP: 5 DISEASE
  • Hero’s Hall HP: 4

In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger:
  • :exhaust: Technician: Thieving Imp (4/4 doomed)
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Vandy (5/6 lvl 5)

Economy Info:

Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 7
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 1
  • Workers: 10

End of Turn Hand

Cursed Ghoul
Hooded Executioner
Abomination
Deteriorate
Sacrifice the Weak

End of Turn Discard
My Thoughts

Could be Art of War rush now… Spose I’ll worker Sickness, and try again on Doom Grasp


Yes sorry I was between two versions of the turn and obviously didn’t proof read it properly :sweat_smile:

Since it’s your favourite I thought I’d better include it

P1T6


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH

Justice Juggernaut (diversify my unstoppable attacking threats)
Justice Juggernaut (ditto)


STARTING HAND

Boot Camp → Scribe → Scribe → Insurance Agent
Insurance Agent
Manufactured Truth → Imp Discard
Free Speech
Insurance Scam 1 → The Art of War
Insurance Scan 2 → Elite Training


WORKERS

Building Inspector
Porkhand Magistrate
Spectral Aven
Jail


NextHand

The Art of War
Arrest
Justice Juggernaut
Lawful Search


Tech 2 card(s)
Discard
Get Paid - ($8)
Insurance Agent, insure Imp for absolutely no reason at all - ($7)
Bootcamp Agent, draw - ($6)
Scribe, draw - ($4)
Scribe, draw - ($2)
2nd Insurance Agent, insures Imp again, definitely no scams here - ($1)
Musketeer shoots Imp - ($0)
Musketeer and doomed Newsman trade with Imp, I get 6 gold and draw 2 cards, you draw - ($6)
Oni breaks Tech II, your base to 12
Quince and Mirror - ($4)
2nd Mirror - ($2)
Free Speech - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 2, draw 2, reshuffle, draw 2


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Scribe 1/3A
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger: Mirror Illusion 0/1
  • :pschip: Technician: Mirror Illusion 0/1
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • L8 General Onimaru 4/3 [Frenzy 1, Resist 1]
  • L1 Sirius Quince 1/3
  • Insurance Agent 3/3 [+]
  • Insurance Agent 2/2
  • Scribe 1/3

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Law)

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 8
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 8
Thoughts

I probably want to Insure Imp and then kill it with Musketeer and Newsman to maximise my gold. Oni can break Tech II then and I can still summon Quince and cast Free Speech if nothing else. I’ll tech in a couple of Juggernauts as a win condition, since now I’ll definitely remain ahead on Tech, I’ll just need to see how far I can draw through my deck.

OOFT! Quite far it would seem!

Main decision is do I want to worker Elite Training or stay on 4 cards. If I don’t worker I either bank the gold for next turn or make a second Mirror to maximise my chances of ending things quickly with Juggermirrors. Two mirrors is quite tempting, since worst case he can play and boost two Hoodies and that would mean sticking just with Vandy. One hoodie is most likely so this patrol means I get something back if he executes a mirror and doesn’t bother attacking.

1 Like

Definitely not great lmao

Game 5 Player 2, Turn 6

P2 Black vs P1 Blue

Current balance patch changes in effect

Starting Hand

Cursed Ghoul
Hooded Executioner
Abomination
Deteriorate
Sacrifice the Weak
Doom Grasp (techn, boo free speech)

Events of Turn:


Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (10+1float)
  • Draw 1 techn
  • Tech 2 Cards in (except on turn 1)
All Teched Cards

Abomination, Plague Spitter
Dark Pact, Metamorphosis
Hooded Executioner, Cursed Ghoul
Doom Grasp, Abomination
Crypt Crawler, Sickness


Main:

  • Hooded Exec + Boost, kills scav mirror, you get 1g (6)
  • Vandy kills SQL, takes 1
  • Orpal + midband (1)
  • Worker (0)
Workers

Abomination, Sickness, Skeletal Archery, Graveyard, Poisonblade Rogue, Pestering Haunt

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 4 Draw 5

Board Info:

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 12
  • Tech1 HP: 4
  • Tech2 HP: 5 DISEASE
  • Hero’s Hall HP: 4

In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Hooded Executioner (3/3a)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger:
  • :exhaust: Technician: Orpal (2/4 lvl 4)
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Vandy (5/5 lvl 5)

Economy Info:

Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 1
  • Disc: 7

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 11

End of Turn Hand

Dark Pact
Crypt Crawler
Summon Skeletons
Metamorphosis
Skeleton Javelineer

End of Turn Discard
My Thoughts

Really not good lol…


GGWP! I know a lot of this win came off that one patrol misplay but it still feels like an accomplishment!

P1T7


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH

Free Speech (Double up for consistency, not that it matters)
Art of War (Ditto)


STARTING HAND

Lawful Search
Arrest
Justice Juggernaut
The Art of War


WORKERS

Building Inspector
Porkhand Magistrate
Spectral Aven
Jail


NextHand

Reputable Newsman
Traffic Director
Bluecoat Musketeer
Free Speech


Discard

Scribe
The Art of War
Arrest
The Art of War
Free Speech
Lawful Search
Justice Juggernaut


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + Scavenger - ($9)
Arrest Hoodie - ($7)
Agent+1 and Scribe kill Orpal, each takes -2/-2, Quince midbands, you draw
Mirror → Hoodie - ($5)
The Art of War - ($2)
Super Saiyan Oni + Mirror Hoodie + Agent + Quince hit your base for 13 damage DESTROYING IT!

Float ($2)
Discard 2, draw 4


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • L8 General Onimaru 6/3AA [Unstoppable, Swift Strike, Readiness, Frenzy 1]
  • L3 Sirius Quince 1/4
  • Insurance Agent 2/2
  • Mirror Hoodie 3/3
  • Insurance Agent 1/1 [-]
  • Scribe 0/1 [–]

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Law)

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 4
  • Disc: 7

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 8
1 Like

During that game I was thinking a lot about how we might tweak Law Tech II as most options felt unuseable when I was at the point of choosing them. These two changes seem pretty fun:

Card Change Thoughts
Guardian of the Gates Gains “Can’t be exhausted or sidelined.” Maintains uniqueness vs Voidblocker but enhances flavour of being an actual wall that you have to go through. In vanilla it has really bad anti-synergy with Boot Camp but now its a good target for it. Really important that this card is playable with all the other cards in Law Tech II being slow.
Arresting Constable Reduce cost to 3g, Increase stats to 3/4 Just needs to be more efficient to be worth playing. Ability is good but slow so now its a reasonable body to block with and force more advantageous trades. Kept the flavour of lower attack than health.

Let me know what you think, happy to try one or both of these or repeat without either now you know to be wary of Elite Training.

GG WP! The bad patrol definitely hurt me but you played well on aggro, deserved win

Agree that Constable and GotG are the ones worthy of updates on Law T2, and Insurance Agent is almost worth a nerf…?

I still feel like Constable’s best buff would be Haste. Blue needs more “right now” options and a combat hero shutdown is kinda missing from the whole deck, this would be a major reason to pick Law Tech2.

For Guardian of the Gates I think it should just change from “deals combat damage to a unit” to “is attacked”, it should work on heroes and units, and it should work whether or not it gets -1/-1d. Get rid of it all together or suffer the slowdown IMO

1 Like

I like your suggestion for Guardian of the Gates a lot. I’ve made the phrasing “after combat damage” so it’s clear that they don’t get disabled before resolving the attack.

For Constable he currently doesn’t affect heroes, so do you also mean he should be buffed to affect them as well as tech 0, I and II units? Or have I picked you up wrongly?

I’ve listed two variants of “hasty” Constable below. The second version allows for arrive, disable and patrol, which I quite like, but reduces the ability to immediately copy with mirrors.

Happy either way but I kind of like my alt version more as it sort of plays into the meme of him being “arresting” just by showing up. I mean look at that moustache!? Given he’s a policeman I think it’s appropriate to say he would “stop traffic” :joy:

Card Change
Guardian of the Gates Ability text → “Can’t attack. Whenever Guardian of the Gates is attacked, disable the attacker after combat damage”
Arresting Constable Add Haste
Arresting Constable (Alt) Ability → “Arrives or :exhaust: → Disable a Tech 0, I or II unit.”

Edit: Fixed it now, layout was a mess before

I did mean Constable should affect heroes, and frankly Tech 3 units I think. Blue doesn’t have other great answers to Tech3 besides Liberty Gryphon just being a badass tech 3.

I do also like the “Arrives or Attacks” variant but I’d vote for the haste personally, would be cool to have some way to put damage out. I get haste PLUS adding tech 3 and heroes is a big buff, but he’s literally one of the worst tech 2 units in the game, and Law T2 really only has Insurance Agent right now (who again I think actually deserves a nerf)

I’m down to play a game where we give Constable Haste + Heroes and Tech 3s, and GatG “whenever it’s attacked”. Maybe we try just that against vanilla black (or a paired down list of the nerfs) to see how impactful it is? Also game to try it w/ full nerfs to black but maybe remove the Musketeer buff, that was actually super impactful (I feel like that one we should be requiring Tapping for, the extra 1 damage for 1g is really powerful for a starter card)

remember that haste has no synergy with the current flagst garrison (negates haste). hence imo the arrive or tap would be better.

How many people are tech labbing law and peace?

2 Likes

My actual complaint with that is keeping the flavour of zero haste in blue (barring liberty gryphon).

I’m open to any and all buffs to Constable and GotG.

I absolutely disagree that Insurance Agent needs a nerf. At least until we nerf Hyperion, Tricycloid, Maestro, Grounded Guide, Crashbarrow, Captured Bugblatter, Drill Sergeant, Blooming Ancient… basically, every other powerful Tech 2 card.

3 Likes

Until law is not dominating the tournaments, there should be indeed no nerfes…

1 Like

Yall make a good point and in fairness, IDK what nerf I’d even propose (capping the gold or maybe only allowing one insurance rune per unit I guess?)

So anyways, what say you @thehug0naut ? Musketeer buff out, new buffs in, same black nerfs in? You start or me?

2 Likes

Sure, I’m game to try anything at this point. Let’s try your haste version of constable for now, but I’m with @Bryce_The_Rice in preferring the Arrives or Attacks version.

Test 5 Changes
Deteriorate Cost → 1g, Cannot target illusions
Dark Pact Cost → 1g
Vandy Midband Remove Resist 1, Cannot fetch Metamorphosis
Vandy Maxband Remove Targeting
Guardian of the Gates If attacked, disable the attacking unit or hero after combat
Arresting Constable Add Haste. Disable ability targets a unit or hero

My gut reaction is that there would be a feasible Tech II plan vs Black with these buffs, but I remain concerned about how I realistically get to Tech II, especially vs P1 Black.

I think that tells me that we probably need to test more of you starting. Hopefully my Blue play is also improving so that will help the tests be more useful!

1 Like

hm, imo insurance agent is the only decent law card. I’d leave it as it is and i propose another change:
Justice Juggernaut: retains Unstoppable and can’t patrol but loses Two Lives and gains haste instead.
It would make more law stuff hasty and useful the turn they are played so that they can swing the match while two lives is useless since it just partly made up for it being useless cuz arrival fatigue.

We shall try me as P1 then, GL HF!

Game 6 Player 1, Turn 1

P2 Black vs P1 Blue

Current balance patch changes in effect

Starting Hand

Sacrifice the Weak
Deteriorate
Jandra, the Negator
Summon Skeletons
Poisonblade Rogue

Events of Turn:


Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (4)
  • Tech 2 Cards in (except on turn 1)
All Teched Cards

Main:

  • Jandra, the Negator (1)
  • Worker (0)
Workers

Poisonblade Rogue

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 3 Draw 5

Board Info:

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20

In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger:
  • :exhaust: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Jandra, the Negator (3/3)

Economy Info:

Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 0
  • Disc: 3

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 5

End of Turn Hand

Skeleton Javelineer
Graveyard
Thieving Imp
Pestering Haunt
Skeletal Archery

End of Turn Discard
My Thoughts

Jandra start seems okay yea? Not sure what else I’d do w/ this hand…