Casual: Keybounce (mono-white) vs Frozen Storm (past / blood / discipline)

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61

Prynn gains a rune when attacking, that’s how she’s at 3

Thanks for the Seer math error btw, fixed above

62

I’m used to thinking of Prynn as “Two of your own ‘Arrives:’ abilities get a second activation”. Not “I’ll actually manage to exile your units in a time loop for more than one turn”.

… Swift strike is not haste. … That move won’t work.

63

I don’t see myself being able to win this. Do you see any obvious errors that I made?

64

Taking a peak at your secrets, workering Snapback is a big mistake. It is almost never a good idea to worker Snapback. It’s one of the A+ tier starter cards in the game. My deck is very hero-strong, you don’t necessarily want to use snapback the first 3 turns (it is situationally decent on turn 2/3), but you DEFINITELY want it around turn 4 on.

Only when you have other strong hero counterspells in your deck (Nether Drain/ Doom Grasp, Origin Story, Free Speech to a lesser extent) and the opposing deck is hero-weak would you even consider workering Snapback.

As an example, on turn 6, if you had Snapback and Sensei’s Advice in hand, you’d have been able to

  • Snap out Prynn for Drakk
  • Gotten your YLD back (with Prynn leaving the board)
  • Use Sparring Partner and Sensei’s Advice to buff Birdie enough to kill Drakk, netting you 2 free levels

That would have been a HUGE swing in momentum, as I’d have had basically nothing to do the next turn on offense. I’d be forced to sword down YLD.

Other “misplays”:

  • I think the offensive move with Grave on turn 3 isn’t worth the chip damage you got on the tech 1. It left grave much too vulnerable, which gives my strong hero strats free levels. You want to keep Grave as safe as possible, threatening strong counters so that I don’t commit hard to a hero (and end up getting a sword in that hero’s chest). Killing a Fading Argonaut isn’t a big enough counter.

  • Workering Flagbearer. I have a lot of good targeting (Stewardess, Prynn Max, Kidnapping, Reversal, Bloodlust), Flagbearer is a great way to peel pressure off your higher-priority assets in the mid-lategame.

  • Smoker isn’t all that useful in this matchup (my primary early targeting puts things back in your hand anyway, so his ability isn’t particularly helpful). I’d be workering him early. Same with Viper, Primus, and two of Safe Attacking, Aged Sensei, Grappling Hook and Savior Monk.

  • Teching an Entangling Vines isn’t a bad idea against Mox and Purple Starter / Stewardess. If I can’t replay Stewardess, I lose some value from her, and you could get some good counter-attacks by sidelining a patroller.

  • Inverse Power Ninja is also a decent tech in this matchup. Risky against Kidnapping, but if you have a good read that I’m not going for kidnapping (it’s not a great choice for me early game, Stewardess is the expensive card I want most on first cycle), it can be really great at stopping my midgame pressure.

  • Like I said I think Ninjutsu Tech 2 + Heroes is your soundest win condition

1 Like
65

I realized just how bad that snapback worker was pretty quickly. It was done turn 1, and we rewound to turn 2.

In the past, my use of snapback has been tempered by having to give the opponent a replacement. It’s not like origin story where they are just down a hero, it’s spending 3 and a card to counter around 4-5 gold spent plus a 2 gold boost. So it hasn’t been a big benefit to me in the past. I see now that it depends a great deal on the heroes involved.

Equally, with flag bearer. Given a choice between bringing out a poor unit that is targetted, or bringing out the better unit in the first place who might not be targetted, I have never found FB to be a good play. There’s always someone that I want more. Mind Parry Monk was going to be my targetting protection.

Primus is really my only good anti-air early game. I wanted to get him to deal with your nullcraft.

Looking back on turn 3’s play: I had gotten rid of everything except that indestructable mox. I thought I had sufficient pressure on you. I did not realize that you had a haste flier and a frenzy hero (I definitely need to pay more attention to hero midband abilities).

What would you have done on turn 3? And why do you think the idea/threat of birds nest to finish it off was insufficient?

If nothing else, forcing you to spend money on a t2 building a turn early should have meant that much less on the board.

IPN: I was forseeing a lot of units/heroes. IPN only makes sense when it’s near solo. A board with two IPN’s and nothing else is really strong, but it quickly gets weaker as your board gets bigger.

66

So your idea for me last turn was to midband grave. Turning him from a 2/3 to a 3/4 was certainly doable, but it would have meant no YLD, just the 2/2 monk. You could still use pyrnn on that, and the size of my deck meant that it would be too long before the dragon came back.

I don’t see how it would have been any actual counter to you to have done that.

67

I would have either:

Rambasa + Hero’s Hall, shell up with Mario Twin in SQL, Monk Scav, Luigi Twin Techn, Smoker pings tech 1
Or
Rambasa, Monk smacks Mox out the way, grave and smoker kill Fargo, midband Grave

But more likely the former. It sets up better trades for on the next turn, threatens tons of pressure, and isn’t really easy for me to hit back at productively (battle suits lets me trade poorly Fargo for Mario, slightly favorably Mox for Monk / Luigi)

As for the snapback + sensei’s advice thing, I guess I meant turn 7 not turn 6. Turn 6 I probably would have just maxed out Rook, but at that point you’re kind of in trouble anyway. Turn 5 you probably should have laid Rambasa Twins instead of teching up. That would have kept Sets alive to move the board back in your favor.

1 Like
68

Like I said, if what I’m saying isn’t ringing true, I’m happy to spin the table and play the mono-white side, or just play another game same sides. It’s possible my deck is a heavier favorite against White than I’m analyzing.

1 Like
69

… I really hate discord. My first post got eaten.

So, a simple second post: Lets try it with you playing from turn 2 :-).

(And, no more early-game workering of snapback for me.)

1 Like
70

So I’m assuming this is against the same board of Smoker, Savior Monk, Grave, tech 1, with me just having mox from turn 1?

If so, my turn will be unchanged from the last go-round, but I’ll re-draw my turn 3 hand so I don’t “know” what I’m getting

Game 1 (trial 3), Player 2, Turn 2

P1 White vs P2 [Past]/Blood/Discipline

[details=Starting Hand]
Plasmodium
Battle Suits
Fading Argonaut
Neo Plexus
Forgotten Fighter
[/details]

##Events of Turn:

###Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (6+1float)
  • Tech 2 cards in (except turn 1)

[details=All Teched Cards]
Stewardess of the Undone, Crash Bomber
[/details]

###Main:

  • Tech 1 (5)
  • Fading Argonaut (3)
  • Worker (2)

[details=Workers]
Plasmodium, Time Spiral
[/details]

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 3 rs Draw 5
  • Tech 2 cards before my next turn

###Board Info:
####Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • Tech1 HP: 5

####In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Hardened Mox (1/1+1armor)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger: Fading Argonaut (2/3 fade 3)
  • :exhaust: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

####In Play:

  • nothing

###Economy Info:

####Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 3
  • Disc: 0

####Gold:

  • Gold: 2
  • Workers: 7

[details=End of Turn Hand]
Temporal Research
Forgotten Fighter
Crash Bomber
Nullcraft
Tinkerer
[/details]

[details=End of Turn Discard][spoiler]

[/spoiler][/details]

[details=My Thoughts]
This is a much saner approach for him, building a board. I’m in a very defensive position where going to tech 2 early is a great idea for me, but on the other hand I think my deck operates best around tech 1 units (I’m strong across the board there) + heroes. I’m going to grab Stewardess and Crash Bomber, and plan for Tech 2 Discipline. Training Grounds would compliment a tech 1 heavy approach, and a tower would work well also. If things get hairy I can tech 3 rush for Archons.
[/details]

71

Sorry, I was thinking you take over white from turn 2, and I play that mix.

1 Like
72

Having workered Snapback?

73

Yea. Given that horrible play turn 1, can you recover since I seemed unable to?

74

IDK if workering Snapback is recoverable, but I can try. Turn later tonight

75

Okay, playing without white starter’s Ace, please at least pretend like I haven’t workered it :slight_smile: GL HF, go ahead and pick up from my turn 2 hand!

Game 2 (flip of game 1), Player 1, Turn 2

P1 White vs P2 [Past]/Blood/Discipline

[details=Starting Hand]
Savior Monk
Fox Viper
Morningstar Flagbearer
Grappling Hook
Safe Attacking
[/details]

##Events of Turn:

###Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (5)
  • Tech 2 cards in (except turn 1)

[details=All Teched Cards]
Inverse Power Ninja, Reversal
[/details]

###Main:

  • Smoker pings your base to 19
  • Morningstar Flagbearer (2)
  • Worker (1)
  • Tech 1 (0)

[details=Workers]
Fox Viper, Snapback (ugh no whyyyy)
[/details]

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 3 rs Draw 5
  • Tech 2 cards before my next turn

###Board Info:
####Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • Tech1 HP: 5

####In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Grave (2/3+1armor lvl 1)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger:
  • :exhaust: Technician: Morningstar Flagbearer (2/2)
  • :target: Lookout:

####In Play:

  • Smoker (1/1)

###Economy Info:

####Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 3
  • Disc: 0

####Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 6

[details=End of Turn Hand]
Sensei’s Advice
Aged Sensei
Inverse Power Ninja
Savior Monk
Fox Primus
[/details]

[details=End of Turn Discard][spoiler]

[/spoiler][/details]

[details=My Thoughts]
ZOMG this is going to be hard mode lol… workering Snapback on turn 1!!! I’m grabbing Reversal right now to have floating around the deck as a poor man’s hero disabler / patrol destroyer to get to hero. Grave sword and that will have to be my main anti-hero guns until I can get to School’ed Glorious Ninjas. Probably next tech will be GN + School, and then Porcupine + GN. Hopefully flagbearer helps run some interference for IPN
[/details]

1 Like
76

Hmm. Where I brought out Savior Monk, and floated one, you brought out flag bearer.

… I’m really interested in learning your “why” thought afterwards. Both are 2/2’s, and both are, at least initially, the target of any spells that would be cast.

Alright, toss my tech cards in for turn 2, and …
Wow, Vortoss Emblem is next to useless against mono-white’s targeting.
…
How do you play purple starter without going down on cards? Forecast 3 on a start-of-game card? You can bring it out next turn at a cost of 2 cards next turn, with no unit brought out this turn. … Temporal Research seems to be the only good card draw, and it’s barely +1/2 card per turn (and getting it turn 1 is bad luck).

Seer is absolutely wonderful in mono-purple (time runes everywhere), but with only 1 purple spec?

Plasmodium seems to be something to bring out around the tech 1 level, not the tech 0 level – at T1, you have other unit abilities and spells to speed it up / hold the line. But it gets targeted like a T0 instead of a T1 …

Ok, more thoughts. I’m realizing that I really don’t understand purple.

Forgotten fighter would, at cost 2, counter flag bearer, cost 3. That’s +1g to me, which should be favorable. So that looks like a good play. Except that you have to have Pyrnn out, and there’s no way to defend her this early. And, since it puts it in your hand, you can play 2 units next turn.
Plasmodium, along with tinkerer already out, and seer arriving, makes a good turn 3-4ish play
Fading argonaut is just a good early unit – 2/3 for 2. Defends thrice, or attacks twice.
Battle suits is … Seer, stewardess. And three T0 units. Ohh, focus master and mind parry monk. So if I go Discipline, it is worth it.
Neo plexus is just the basic 2/2 g2. It’s a straight +1g over flag bearer.

Ideas: You’ve probably got a +1 to play next turn. Grave and smoker +1 can take out Pyrnn, so just removing flag bearer isn’t a good idea. Putting a unit on the patrol zone is better.

Now, as I think about purple’s play, I realize: You can expect stewardess. So you can expect to get a card back in your hand, so you can expect to go down a card. … Why did I not take advantage of that? How did I not – it’s an automatic? Or, you can expect to be able to play 2 units in response to stewardess. … Right, its’ a “may”, so I can choose not to if I don’t want to, or I can bring my own T0 … if I had a T0 worth replaying, or if I just wanted to upgrade a weak unit (** like a near faded argonaut **).

More to the point, if my opponent is keeping a 5 card hand, stewardess of the undone is basically “Remove a T0 unit, and face two better units next turn”. The more I look at this, the less useful she seems in any sort of competitive play. Yes, if she lets me make a surgical strike the turn she arrives (which is what you did), but it’s like borrowing from the future with more trouble coming out later.

In fact, with all the bounce abilities, the first rule of playing against purple seems to be never go down on cards, as purple will give you your extra cards to play.

So what’s the trick for purple starter?

77

Going down on cards is perfectly fine if stewardess will help you recover them :wink: just depends on which cards and what playing extra nets you.

Stewardess is a very top tier tech 1 unit in competitive play, largely due to the tempo swing factor you mention (you can usually threaten hero kills early with a t0 patrol removal) and also for the tempo swing (a card in hand can be replayed but delays an attack for another turn and makes the player pay gold for it again.)

Purple starters top tier cards are nullcraft and fading Argonaut for sure, battle suits Mox and temporal research are situationally awesome as well though. TR is guaranteed two card draw on a fresh prynn summon, for 4g that can be very worth it mid to late game.

The particular deck you are piloting wants to play a tech 1 + heros hall extended mid game. Blood or discipline to compliment it or help end it, perhaps a tech lab +tech 3 for archons if there’s a lot of trouble closing the game out.

Purple starter is really solid though, and stewardess is not to be underestimated

78

@keybounce got a turn 2 reply in mind?

79

Sorry. I spent too many CPU cycles this weekend making paper clips. Dentist appointment in an hour, …, … tonight for certain.

1 Like
80

aaugh. That’s twice that this forum software has eaten a post with this broken interface.

P2T2

Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Stewardess of the Undone (2/3; 3g; return T0)
Sparring partner (2/2; 1g; gives +1/+1)

STARTING HAND
Plasmodium (4/4, forecast 3, haste, 2g)
Nullcraft
Tinkerer
Sparring partner (2/2; 1g; gives +1/+1)
Temporal Research

WORKERS
Time Spiral
Fading Argonaut (2/3, fade 3, 2g)

NextHand

Plasmodium (4/4, forecast 3, haste, 2g)
Forgotten Fighter (2g; bounce weak t0/t1)
Battle Suits (+1 atk, soldier/mystic, 2g)
Nullcraft
Temporal Research

Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + float - ($7)
Worker - ($6)
Pyrnn (L1; 1/3; 3g to L4) fade 4 - ($4)
Forgotten fighter bounce your flag bearer - ($2)
Tech 1 - ($1)

Float ($1)
Discard 3, reshuffle, draw 5

[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]

  • :psblueshield: [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Hardened Mox (1/1 indestruct)
  • :psfist: [I]Elite[/I]:
  • :ps_: [I]Scavenger[/I]:
  • :pschip: [I]Technician[/I]: Pyrnn (L1; 1/3; 3g to L4) fade 4
  • :target: [I]Lookout[/I]:
    [B]In Play:[/B]

[B]Buildings:[/B]

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5

[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 4
  • Disc: 0
    [B]Gold:[/B]
  • Gold: 1
  • Workers: 7
Thoughts

Forgotten fighter would, at cost 2, counter flag bearer, cost 3. That’s +1g to me, which should be favorable. So that looks like a good play. Except that it gives you a card. Give it a try anyways.

Next turn, I’ll tech in reversal, build a heros hall, and plan for two removals with two heroes.
Prynn will be protected for 4 turns. I’m going to force you to spend 3 and a card to counter my two gold, or else lose a turn’s draw. Or, kill her now and give me a draw, either is OK.

Worker: On defense, “fade 3” is a negative. I want to try bringing plasmodium out if I can get tinkerer and seer, should be in time for tech 1.