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Casual: Black vs Blue series - FrozenStorm vs payprplayn


#1

@payprplayn has welcomed the challenge of defeating Black with Blue, everyone wish him luck! I suspect this matchup is heavily tilted toward black, see past series for more info:

Game 1, Player 1, Turn 1

Black vs Blue

[details=Starting Hand]
Thieving Imp
Deteriorate
Poisonblade Rogue
Skeletal Archery
Graveyard
[/details]

##Events of Turn:

###Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (4)
  • Tech 2 cards in (except turn 1)

[details=All Teched Cards][spoiler]

[/spoiler][/details]


###Main:

  • Thieving Imp, discard #4 of 5
  • Worker (0)

[details=Workers]
Skeletal Archery
[/details]

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 3 Draw 5
  • Tech 2 cards before my next turn

###Board Info:
####Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20

####In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger:
  • :exhaust: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

####In Play:

  • Thieving Imp (2/2 obeying the law so can’t be arrested)

###Economy Info:

####Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 0
  • Disc: 3

####Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 5

[details=End of Turn Hand]
Jandra, the Negator
Sacrifice the Weak
Pestering Haunt
Skeleton Javelineer
Summon Skeletons
[/details]

[details=End of Turn Discard]
Graveyard
Poisonblade Rogue
Deteriorate
[/details]

[details=My Thoughts][spoiler]
No Jav or Haunt in a P1T1 hand, that’s a bummer. So Imp or Vandy + float? I think I’d rather start with card pressure, so let’s go with Imp. Already I’m a little off “the script”

Inspector Oni would be a tough drop seeing as I don’t have Deteriorate for the next hand, but we’ll manage :wink: Probably would just skip a building turn 2 and wait for re-draw to nab deteriorate.
[/spoiler][/details]


Blue vs Black box
#2

Player 2 Turn 1


[details=StartingHand Workers]

[spoiler]STARTING HAND
Spectral Aven
Jail (discarded to Imp-- yes, this was card #4. for some reason the post template has them in a different order than they appeard in my spreadsheet)
Traffic Director
Building Inspector
Manufactured Truth


WORKERS
Traffic Director


[/spoiler][/details]

[details=NextHand]

[spoiler]Lawful Search
Bluecoat Musketeer
Reputable Newsman
Porkhand Magistrate


[/spoiler][/details]

[details=Discard]

[spoiler]Jail
Spectral Aven
Manufactured Truth


[/spoiler][/details]
Tech 0 card(s)
Get Paid - ($5)
Worker - ($4)
Oni - ($2)
Building Inspector - ($1)

Float ($1)
Discard 2, draw 4


[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]

  • :psblueshield: [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Oni lvl 1 (2/3+A)
  • :psfist: [I]Elite[/I]:
  • :ps_: [I]Scavenger[/I]:
  • :pschip: [I]Technician[/I]:
  • :target: [I]Lookout[/I]: Building Inspector (1/1) your first building costs extra

[B]In Play:[/B]

[B]Buildings:[/B]

  • :heart: Base HP: 20

[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 1
  • Disc: 3

[B]Gold:[/B]

  • Gold: 1
  • Workers: 6

[details=Thoughts]

I think playing Building Inspector + Hero in SQL is the way to do this. I think I should go with either Oni or Bigby, so the Imp dies if it swings. BI should be played in Lookout, I think. Adding the extra tax to Deteriorate means he can’t build a Heroes’ Hall next turn, but must instead go with Tech 1. I expect something like Vandy+Tech I + Deteriorate, probably teching Dark Pact and something like Bone Collector. The question of which hero to play is interesting. Oni is substantially more threatening, and may induce him to play Orpal rather than Vandy, which might disrupt his plans somewhat. He always has to respect the threat of Oni going berserk, as soon as next turn: He can’t afford to suicide the Imp into Oni because midband Oni->kill Hero-> Maxband Oni is an immediate threat. If he patrols it, though, it’s vulnerable to arrest, which makes it a good potential target for MT. I don’t have MT in my next hand, but he doesn’t know that. On the other hand, Bigby’s spells would seem to provide better value long-term. Injunction is a good follow-up after inducing him to build tech I rather than HH, as is Community Service. I think I’ll go with Oni, but I’d like to try Bigby too in the same situation. Since this is a series, I’ll likely get the chance. Setting up a peace engine takes a turn or two after tech II that I may not have, so I expect I’ll probably head for Law tech II.
[/details]


#3

Game 1, Player 1, Turn 2

Black vs Blue

[details=Starting Hand]
Jandra, the Negator
Sacrifice the Weak
Pestering Haunt
Skeleton Javelineer
Summon Skeletons
[/details]

##Events of Turn:

###Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (5)
  • Tech 2 cards in (except turn 1)

[details=All Teched Cards]
Dark Pact, Shadow Blade
[/details]


###Main:

  • Vandy (3)
  • Skeleton Javelineer (2)
  • Pestering Haunt (2)
  • Worker (1)

[details=Workers]
Jandra, the Negator, Skeletal Archery
[/details]

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 2 rs Draw 4
  • Tech 2 cards before my next turn

###Board Info:
####Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20

####In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Skeleton Javelineer (1/1+1armor)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger:
  • :exhaust: Technician: Thieving Imp (2/2)
  • :target: Lookout:

####In Play:

  • Vandy (2/3 lvl 1)
  • Pestering Haunt (1/1)

###Economy Info:

####Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 3
  • Disc: 0

####Gold:

  • Gold: 1
  • Workers: 6

[details=End of Turn Hand]
Poisonblade Rogue
Dark Pact
Summon Skeletons
Graveyard
[/details]

[details=End of Turn Discard][spoiler]

[/spoiler][/details]

[details=My Thoughts][spoiler]
Not much deviation here, could have opted for Garth instead of Vandy and gotten an extra skeleton, ensuring hero survival, but honestly if he both HAS the Arrest + MTruth combo (I think odds are like 13% he has both) and IS WILLING TO go down further on cards to pull that move, I’ll just grab Nether drain next turn and skeleton spam. It’ll suck for a couple turns but I’ll come out ahead without much trouble.

He’d be giving up 3 cards and 4 gold to kill 0/1 card (w/ technician recovery or Imp just arrested) and 1 or 3 gold, and get a 4-gold hero swing out of that trade. Nether drain gets 3 of that gold back easily. I don’t need a ton of gold and I’m crazy card efficient, I’d just bleed him out.
[/spoiler][/details]


#4

Why not build Tech I? I’m guessing you’re saving for Heroes’ Hall next turn, but I’d like to see a more in depth explanation of your thoughts on that.


#5

I so want to read that. I’m not going to, of course, but I hate it when people whisper in front of me. I have a pathological need to know what they’re talking about, even though I know it’s none of my business. Seriously, now I can’t wait for this game to be over just so I can read your post, even though I know it’s probably not that interesting (since I’m assuming you wouldn’t give strategic advice during a game, you’re probably just correcting something he said in his thoughts).


#6

Let’s get silly…
Player 2 Turn 2


[details=Tech StartingHand Workers]

[spoiler]TECH
The Art of War
The Art of War


STARTING HAND
Porkhand Magistrate
Reputable Newsman
Bluecoat Musketeer
Lawful Search


WORKERS
Traffic Director


[/spoiler][/details]

[details=NextHand]

[spoiler]Jail
Lawful Search
Arrest
The Art of War
Reputable Newsman


[/spoiler][/details]
Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + float - ($7)
midband oni - ($3)
Oni kills skeleton javelineer
maxband Oni. He Heals. I get 3 soldiers - ($0)
No worker

Float ($0)
Discard 4, draw 1, reshuffle, draw 4


[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]

  • :psblueshield: [I]Squad Leader[/I]:
  • :psfist: [I]Elite[/I]: Soldier (2/1, sparkshot)
  • :ps_: [I]Scavenger[/I]: Soldier (1/1, sparkshot)
  • :pschip: [I]Technician[/I]: Building Inspector (1/1) your first building costs extra
  • :target: [I]Lookout[/I]: Soldier (1/1, sparkshot, resist 1)

[B]In Play:[/B]

  • Oni lvl 8 (4/5)

[B]Buildings:[/B]

  • :heart: Base HP: 20

[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 5
  • Disc: 0

[B]Gold:[/B]

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 6

[details=Thoughts]

You know what, I’m gonna go balls to the wall, maxband Oni and tech double Art of War. I know he’ll eventually Doom Grasp oni, but I’m hoping I can get value out of him first. At the very least, it’s a way of disrupting the tempo. I hate skipping a worker, but the play is interesting enough that I want to give it a shot. If it fails spectacularly, the game will probably be over soon anyway, and at least then I’ll be able to see whatever it is that Hobusu wrote. I know that patrolling this way exposes me to sparkshot, but the way I see it, the only thing that matters is making sure oni survives. If he attacks a patroller with Vandy, that means he’s not attackin Oni with her, which I’m pretty sure is the only way my opponent can kill Oni this turn. If I don’t draw Art of War next turn, I’m probably dead, but hey, at least I had fun, right?
[/details]


#7

Honestly these games are for fun and especially for this very first game, I don’t have an issue with you reading any of my turn secrets or what Hobusu said. It’s a brand new matchup for you, and at risk of sounding concieted I feel pretty comfortable saying I do have a lot more experience in this matchup than you do.

For future games if we end up playing a series here, I don’t have an issue with you reading my turn thoughts or starting hands. Next hand is a strong handicap to give so I’d advise you against reading that, but it’s for fun, It won’t upset me :wink:


#8

Well that’s certainly inventive… skip a worker AND tech 1? I’m sorry but I’m about to demonstrate how absurd this opening is…

Game 1, Player 1, Turn 3

Black vs Blue

[details=Starting Hand]
Poisonblade Rogue
Dark Pact
Summon Skeletons
Graveyard
Deteriorate StW (DP draws)
[/details]

##Events of Turn:

###Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (6+1float)
  • Tech 2 cards in (except turn 1)

[details=All Teched Cards]
Dark Pact, Nether Drain
Dark Pact, Shadow Blade
[/details]


###Main:

  • Dark Pact, draw 2 my base to 18 (7)
  • Deteriorate Elite Soldier (7)
  • Haunt trades with lookout
  • Vandy kills technician and sparkshots scavenger, you get a card and a gold
  • Maxband Vandy, Imp gets +2/2 (3)
  • Imp rams Onimaru and dies
  • Tech 1 (2)
  • Worker (1)

[details=Workers]
Poisonblade Rogue, Jandra, the Negator, Skeletal Archery
[/details]

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 3 Draw 1 rs Draw 4
  • Tech 2 cards before my next turn

###Board Info:
####Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 18
  • Tech1 HP: 5

####In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger:
  • :exhaust: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

####In Play:

  • Vandy (4/5 lvl 5)

###Economy Info:

####Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 6
  • Disc: 0

####Gold:

  • Gold: 1
  • Workers: 7

[details=End of Turn Hand]
Shadow Blade
Thieving Imp
Graveyard
Pestering Haunt
Deteriorate
[/details]

[details=End of Turn Discard][spoiler]

[/spoiler][/details]

[details=My Thoughts][spoiler]
Well skipping a worker and tech 1 on turn 2 is a bold move… he likely teched 2x Art of War? No problem, he’s going to get a kill on Vandy or my Tech 1, or go straight base, that’s a given. On the other hand, I’m now at the gold advantage, have an inside track on either Tech 2 or Metamorph, and nearly wiped his board clean. I’ll bring Dark Pact and Nether Drain in, both good to have and one of the two will be very useful next cycle, potentially both. Would love to bring in a Bone Collector as well, maxing Garth for a Twilight Baron is always an option too :wink:

He’s trying something new, I like it!
[/spoiler][/details]


#9

Building inspector makes it hard to afford AND bring a hero out, and I want the hero out safely for board control. Dark Pact makes your first cycle so fast and black starter + heroes are so good, you don’t need tech 1 right away every time (even though Black tech 1 is ALSO quite strong).

My turn 2 specifically, he’s got a lot of board threat down and I can’t remove the Inspector efficiently right away, so it’s fine to just wait til I draw deteriorate or can sparkshot it to get rid of it efficiently.

Had I drawn Deteriorate turn 2, I may well have used it (Even on lookout), teched Dark Pact + Bone Collector, and built tech 1, parking Vandy in Elite behind Imp. He’d scantly afford killing her with Arrest + Mid Oni (and only 40% he has arrest after the imp discard, not terrible odds). If the Inspector is in Scav or Technician, I just use the extra gold on Javelineer and guarantee Vandy’s safety, and I’d 100% do that. Huge board pressure


#10

I went ahead and revealed it, since the question itself isn’t too secret.


#11

Actually, that’s more or less exactly what I expected. I did miscalculate a bit, though. I forgot that Vandy could buff the Imp with her maxband. Even so, I’m reasonably happy with how things turned out.
Player 2 Turn 3


[details=Tech StartingHand Workers]

[spoiler]TECH
Guardian of the Gates
Guardian of the Gates


STARTING HAND
Arrest
Lawful Search
Jail
Reputable Newsman
The Art of War
Bluecoat Musketeer


WORKERS
Traffic Director
Jail


[/spoiler][/details]

[details=NextHand]

[spoiler]Porkhand Magistrate
The Art of War
Bluecoat Musketeer
Spectral Aven
Manufactured Truth


[/spoiler][/details]
Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid+scav - ($7)
Worker - ($6)
Art of War - ($3)
Oni safely kills Vandy. Levels fizzle
tech I - ($2)

Float ($2)
Discard 4, draw 4, reshuffle, draw 1


[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]

  • :psblueshield: [I]Squad Leader[/I]:
  • :psfist: [I]Elite[/I]:
  • :ps_: [I]Scavenger[/I]:
  • :pschip: [I]Technician[/I]:
  • :target: [I]Lookout[/I]: Oni lvl 8 (6/1 + 2A, swift strike) resist 1

[B]In Play:[/B]

[B]Buildings:[/B]

  • :heart: Base HP: 20

[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 6
  • Disc: 0

[B]Gold:[/B]

  • Gold: 2
  • Workers: 7

[details=Thoughts]

So I got my wish. I drew AoW. That should let me stall for at least a couple of turns. I considered breaking his tech I, under the assumption that Vandy can’t get past Oni’s swift strike. The problem is, then he’s vulnerable to double shadow blade, which is a distinct possibility (I doubt he’s got more than 1 teched, but Vandy’s midband makes it still a possibility. She could also do a solo metamorphosis, which could be troublesome, though he still couldn’t get around Oni’s swift strike if he patrolled in elite, so we’d essentially be base-racing, but he’d be able to keep it up permanently, while I’d have to keep drawing AoW. Thus the play is to kill Vandy, Patrol in Lookout (just in case he teched Doom Grasp), and build up behind a couple turns of protection. I definitely want Tech I and float a gold. Then next turn I’ll build tech II behind another AoW. as for my tech choices, I’m putting in Guardian of the gates, and General’s hammer to punish Dark Pact. In retrospect I shouldn’t have patrolled in technician. That will mess up my draws. Part of me wants to play reputable newsman at 1 to dodge Nether Drain, though I doubt he teched a Garth spell, given that he maxbanded Vandy last turn. He’s got nothing with haste, though, so he can’t hit Oni on his next turn. If I do get Nether Drained, though, I’m probably boned. Sac the week easily removes RN, though, and playing him would throw off my tempo, forcing me to delay tech II. In light of that, though, I think I’ll tech 2xGuardian instead of Guardian/Hammer to give myself a better chance to draw it when I need it.
[/details]

Edit @FrozenStorm I forgot to do my Tech and Scav triggers. I’m redoing my turn now, and by now I mean right after I play a turn against @Penatronic, who’s been waiting patiently (Sorry about that, btw, I forgot to watch the thread, so I didn’t get a notification when you made a move)

Edit @FrozenStorm Fixed. I probably should have changed more than I did, in fact, I have a growing sense of foreboding now. I think I probably should have done something a bit different, but I’ve taken lots of risks already this game, so what’s 1 more?

Edit:

SecondThoughts

The more I think about it, the more certain I am that he probably teched Nether Drain, but I’m in it now, so fingers crossed

OK, I’m pretty sure I formatted that properly, but it’s not rendering properly. Anybody know what’s up?


#12

Nothing hurt, I am taking my daughter to the park and won’t be doing another turn until the evening or tomorrow


#13

Probably you didn’t quite nest the spoiler and hide details tags properly? Both beginning and end spoiler need to be in between being and end hide details.

And I most certainly did tech nether drain, that’s why I ran the imp into Oni :wink:


#14

Game 1, Player 1, Turn 4

Black vs Blue

[details=Starting Hand]
Shadow Blade
Thieving Imp
Graveyard
Pestering Haunt
Deteriorate
[/details]

##Events of Turn:

###Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (7+1float)
  • Tech 2 cards in (except turn 1)

[details=All Teched Cards]
Bone Collector, Gorgon
Dark Pact, Nether Drain
Dark Pact, Shadow Blade
[/details]


###Main:

  • Thieving Imp, discard #2 of 5 (5)
  • Worker (4)
  • Tech 2 Disease (0)

[details=Workers]
Graveyard, Poisonblade Rogue, Jandra, the Negator, Skeletal Archery
[/details]

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 3 Draw 5
  • Tech 2 cards before my next turn

###Board Info:
####Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 18
  • Tech1 HP: 5
  • Tech2 HP: 5 SPEC DISEASE

####In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger: Thieving Imp (2/2)
  • :exhaust: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

####In Play:

  • nothing

###Economy Info:

####Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 1
  • Disc: 5

####Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 8

[details=End of Turn Hand]
Summon Skeletons
Skeleton Javelineer
Dark Pact
Dark Pact
Sacrifice the Weak
[/details]

[details=End of Turn Discard]
Bone Collector
Gorgon
Deteriorate
Pestering Haunt
Shadow Blade
[/details]

[details=My Thoughts]
Inside track on tech 2 now, burn a card of his and see if he’ll just opt to do the same. He has decent odds to have another AoW, and now SEEING THAT I DIDN’T DRAW NETHER DRAIN a broken Tech 2 would actually kinda really suck… I suppose I could have gone hero’s hall instead of Imp to prevent that possibility, but I would have left an empty patrol then, and I don’t want Oni getting free shots on a Hero’s Hall… Well, I suppose it’s possible for me to not Dark Pact next turn, just Max Vandy, and force him to kill her again… I guess we’ll see what he does. This is some epic bad draw though, I hope the Imp hit his Art of War I guess
[/details]


#15

No, it’s nested properly. I tried removing the spaces from the start of the details tag, nothing. I can’t figure it out. It should be working right.

I figured as much. I came super close to playing RN at 1 last turn to force you to have either Doom Grasp or both sac the weak and ND in your hand at once in order to remove Oni. As soon as I hit “Discard and Draw”, I wished I’d done that. It would have prevented me from reshuffling as well, which I didn’t want to do, but it would have forced me to delay tech II this turn. I actually think I could have been fine building a Heroes’ Hall instead, though.

Yeah, I expected that, but I only expected him to hit for 2. Actually before I finalized my turn 2, I carefully went through all the damage you could possibly put out to make sure I could guarantee that Oni survived the turn. I thought of a bunch of situations, but the one damage source you had that I forgot about was Vandy’s Maxband.


#16

Is there a blank line above the Details tag? That often causes problems if there isn’t one.


#17

That fixed it. Thanks.


#18

I’m fine with you rolling back your previous turn to play the Newsman if you like, but as you have now seen I whiffed nether drain and thus played imp and tech 2


#19

Let’s play it out. After we’re done, I might be interested in winding it back to see what would have happened, if you’re game for that. Even given that you Whiffed on it this turn, I suspect that I might have been better off playing the newsman. One thing it would have done in light of that fact, though is made me a bit more vulnerable to the imp (my second AoW, which I’d be planning to play this turn in either case, would be one of 4 cards I had in hand rather than one of 5). Honestly, if Oni dies on your next turn, I’ll have gotten the value I needed out of him (he will have gotten me through to tech II, and first, assuming he breaks your tech II on my next turn), but giving Garth 4 levels for 1 gold (2 if he patrols in lookout) almost makes me want to skip AoW, trade with the imp, and take my chances with your tech II. Still, missinng that extra tech choice in second cycle is going to come back to bite me. I would have been better off if I had patrolled the Building Inspector in SQL instead, because that extra draw threw off my rhythm. I couldn’t have known that at the time, though, and I wanted to give myself the best possible chance to draw AoW on T3.


#20

added my full turn above, back to you!