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[BALANCE TESTING] FrozenStorm (Black + Vandy Ban) vs NekoAtl (Blue)

I expect no official update to the game to happen, but I wouldn’t mind having an unofficial balance patch for PbF (where our admittedly small community plays the game happily on the regular). Therefore, I am still interested in trying games out. This thread was always more about my own curiosity for me than it was about trying to bring evidence in favor of changes to any official channels.

That said, @Nekoatl, you are playing the way less fun side of this testing and I do not at all mind hanging it up if you’re starting to feel burnt out.

4 Likes

I’m not really feeling burned out, but for the moment I am feeling kinda worn out, so I’ll rest a bit before posting my next turn. Mainly I just wanted to confirm that there was value in continuing before we invested more time.

4 Likes

Take your time, no rush on this at all :slight_smile:

3 Likes

I was reading my old spelman reviews, and I had given Death and Decay an “F”

Looking at these games, it seemed like a “win more” spell where each time Black could have cleared Blue’s board and broken one key building even if D&D was a blank, leaving just a slim chance of recovery (instead of zero with D&D).

What were your impressions of that? Would a simple Sickness of arbitrary Tech 2 unit have been sufficient to lock things up, or was D&D really needed?

I’d have to look closer but it felt pretty necessary to me. Without it I always felt like I’d be having to trade away my critical board pieces to do anything, and that I would simply run out of steam on the next turn. But maybe I’m just not creative enough to see alternative lines that would’ve netted similar results.

If you had a 3rd hero to spend that 8 gold on after trading, it would be easier to see the eventual victory (without it, it looks like you might actually run out of things to spend gold on)

1 Like

@Nekoatl giving a friendly prod wondering if you’d like to continue this experiment, no problem if not!

I don’t know how many more sets of 6 games I’ll be up for in pursuit of a fan patch, but if nothing else, I’m interested to see how this set plays out. However, for a variety of reasons, I don’t expect to feel up to reengaging until after the Thanksgiving holiday.

1 Like

No sweat, I’ll check back then :slight_smile: Have a great turkey day!

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Thanks for your patience. You managed to hit both Garrisons with your discards, which I’m certain I can’t recover from, so start game 2 whenever you’re ready, and we can get this show back on the road.

1 Like

No sweat at all! Might struggle to keep my place here w/ what the changes are, lmk if you see me playing standard black and GL HF!

Set 3, Game 2, Player 1, Turn 1

P1 Black w/ Demon Taxes vs P2 Blue

Starting Hand

Skeletal Archery
Summon Skeletons
Deteriorate
Jandra, the Negator
Sacrifice the Weak

Events of Turn:


Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (4)
  • Tech 2 cards in (except turn 1)
All Teched Cards

Main:

  • Jandra, the Negator (1)
  • Worker (0)
Workers

Summon Skeletons

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 3 Draw 5
  • Tech 2 cards before my next turn

Board Info:

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20

In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger:
  • :exhaust: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Jandra, the Negator (3/3)

Economy Info:

Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 0
  • Disc: 3

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 5

End of Turn Hand

Pestering Haunt
Thieving Imp
Graveyard
Poisonblade Rogue
Skeleton Javelineer

End of Turn Discard
My Thoughts

Not sure what to do with this starting hand… this seems a reasonable choice though


Right, and thanks for linking to the changes. It’s a good thing I clicked it to refresh my memory, because I only recalled about half of them. GL HF!

P2T1


StartingHand Workers

STARTING HAND
Traffic Director
Bluecoat Musketeer
Reputable Newsman
Manufactured Truth
Arrest


WORKERS
Bluecoat Musketeer


NextHand

Building Inspector
Porkhand Magistrate
Jail
Manufactured Truth
Lawful Search


Discard

Reputable Newsman
Arrest


Tech 0 card(s)
Get Paid - ($5)
Worker - ($4)
Traffic Director - ($3)
Bigby Hayes - ($1)

Float ($1)
Stash 1, Discard 2, draw 4


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: L1 Bigby Hayes (2/3A)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger: Traffic Director (1/1) Untargetable
  • :pschip: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 1
  • Disc: 2

Gold:

  • Gold: 1
  • Workers: 6

Thoughts

Jandra opening? Very unusual… maybe he wants to wait and see whether I go with Onimaru before deciding between Vandy and Orpal?. Regardless, Jandra’s not an immediate threat but is a fairly solid defender. That deployment would make a T2 StW prohibitavely expensive. But, the best part is that I can use Jandra as a template for MTruth/Mirrors, so for that reason I should go with Bigby and/or Quince here… and Bigby seems like the superior choice, for his ability to sideline Jandra.

Same lol :wink:

Set 3, Game 2, Player 1, Turn 2

P1 Black w/ Demon Taxes vs P2 Blue

Starting Hand

Pestering Haunt
Thieving Imp
Graveyard
Poisonblade Rogue
Skeleton Javelineer

Events of Turn:


Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (5)
  • Tech 2 cards in (except turn 1)
All Teched Cards

Soul Stone, Twilight Baron


Main:

  • Thieving Imp, discard #5 of 5 (2)
  • Tech 1 (1)
  • Worker (0)
Workers

Poisonblade Rogue, Summon Skeletons

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 3 rs Draw 5
  • Tech 2 cards before my next turn

Board Info:

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • Tech1 HP: 5

In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Jandra, the Negator (3/3+1armor)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger: Thieving Imp (2/2)
  • :exhaust: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:


Economy Info:

Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 3
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 6

End of Turn Hand

Soul Stone
Graveyard
Skeleton Javelineer
Sacrifice the Weak
Pestering Haunt

End of Turn Discard
My Thoughts

Gonna try to the Demon build, we’ll see how that shakes out


P2T2


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Spectral Flagbearer
Spectral Flagbearer


STARTING HAND
Manufactured Truth
Building Inspector
Lawful Search
Jail
Porkhand Magistrate


WORKERS
Bluecoat Musketeer
Jail


NextHand

Spectral Aven
Porkhand Magistrate
Building Inspector
Spectral Flagbearer


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + float - ($7)
Worker - ($6)
Midband Bigby - ($4)
Manufactured Truth, Director was a Negator! - ($3)
Bigby softens up Jandra, “Jandra” finishes her and wounds Imp
Maxband Bigby - ($1)
Tech I - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 2, draw 1, reshuffle, draw 3


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • L5 Bigby Hayes (3/4)

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 6
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 7

Thoughts

Was kinda hoping he would play a hero behind that Jandra, but that was overly optimistic. Well, maxbanding Bigby for cards isn’t a bad idea, so I’ll go aggressive here, I guess. Teching in Flagbearers to defend against Shadow Blade… and now, even if Deteriorate takes one down, it’s a favorable trade for me!

Hmph was hoping to get the 60% Mtruth wasn’t around

Set 3, Game 2, Player 1, Turn 3

P1 Black w/ Demon Taxes vs P2 Blue

Starting Hand

Soul Stone
Graveyard
Skeleton Javelineer
Sacrifice the Weak
Pestering Haunt

Events of Turn:


Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (6+1float)
  • Tech 2 cards in (except turn 1)
All Teched Cards

Shadow Blade, Shrine of Forbidden Knowledge
Soul Stone, Twilight Baron


Main:

  • Vandy (5)
  • Graveyard (3)
  • Hero’s Hall (1)
  • Imp slaps Bigby around, goes to graveyard
  • Worker (0)
Workers

Pestering Haunt, Poisonblade Rogue, Summon Skeletons

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 3 rs Draw 5
  • Tech 2 cards before my next turn

Board Info:

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • Tech1 HP: 5
  • Hero’s Hall HP: 4

In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Vandy (2/3+1armor lvl 1)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger:
  • :exhaust: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Graveyard (3hp, holding Thieving Imp)

Economy Info:

Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 4
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 7

End of Turn Hand

Skeletal Archery
Deteriorate
Twilight Baron
Soul Stone
Shrine of Forbidden Knowledge

End of Turn Discard
My Thoughts

Bummer, would have been nice to soul stone Jandra. Gonna go HH for maximum flexibility + avoid Taxman, with Graveyard and Soul Stone I should be able to build strong board.


Tricksy Bigby was hiding it up his sleeve. :wink:

P2T3


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Spectral Hound
Spectral Hound


STARTING HAND
Spectral Aven
Porkhand Magistrate
Building Inspector
Spectral Flagbearer
Spectral Flagbearer


WORKERS
Bluecoat Musketeer
Jail
Porkhand Magistrate


NextHand

Lawful Search
Traffic Director


Discard

Spectral Hound
Spectral Hound


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($7)
Bigby draws
Worker - ($6)
Spectral Aven - ($4)
Spectral Flagbearer - ($3)
Spectral Flagbearer - ($2)
Building Inspector - ($1)

Float ($1)
Discard 0, draw 2


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Building Inspector (1/1A) $1 tax
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger: Spectral Flagbearer (2/2) Tempting target
  • :pschip: Technician: Spectral Flagbearer (2/2) Tempting target
  • :target: Lookout: Spectral Aven (2/2) Flying, resist 1

In Play:

  • L5 Bigby Hayes (3/2)

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 2
  • Deck: 3
  • Disc: 2

Gold:

  • Gold: 1
  • Workers: 8

Thoughts

Going for more Illusions to patrol without losing me cards to Shadow Blade. Dumping my hand to try to apply as much pressure as possible and protect Bigby’s ability to get free draws. That Heroes’ Hall is a bit worrying, though… the one card that can really mess me up right now is Sickness, and the Hall makes that a potential risk. The potential of Carrion Curse has me kinda wishing I’d workered Arrest instead of Musketeer, but chances are I won’t see Curse until I build my Tech II, so it’s probably fine…

Ooof, such a mess

Set 3, Game 2, Player 1, Turn 4

P1 Black w/ Demon Taxes vs P2 Blue

Starting Hand

Skeletal Archery
Deteriorate
Twilight Baron
Soul Stone
Shrine of Forbidden Knowledge

Events of Turn:


Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (7)
  • Tech 2 cards in (except turn 1)
All Teched Cards

Sickness, Blackhand Dozer
Shadow Blade, Shrine of Forbidden Knowledge
Soul Stone, Twilight Baron


Main:

  • Orpal (5)
  • Thieving Imp, discard #1 of 2 (2)
  • Deteriorate scav, you get 1g (1)
  • Worker (0)
Workers

Skeletal Archery, Pestering Haunt, Poisonblade Rogue, Summon Skeletons

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 3 rs Draw 5
  • Tech 2 cards before my next turn

Board Info:

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • Tech1 HP: 5
  • Hero’s Hall HP: 4

In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Orpal (1/3+1armor)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger: Thieving Imp (2/2)
  • :exhaust: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Vandy (2/3 lvl 1)
  • Graveyard (3hp)

Economy Info:

Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 5
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 8

End of Turn Hand

Sacrifice the Weak
Shadow Blade
Jandra, the Negator
Skeleton Javelineer
Deteriorate

End of Turn Discard
My Thoughts

Geez total flood… I want to punish that by bleeding more cards. Let’s chain Imp


P2T4


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Reteller of Truths
Reteller of Truths


STARTING HAND
Traffic Director
Lawful Search
Reputable Newsman


WORKERS
Bluecoat Musketeer
Jail
Porkhand Magistrate
Traffic Director


NextHand

Manufactured Truth
Arrest


Discard

Spectral Hound
Spectral Hound
Lawful Search
Spectral Flagbearer
Reteller of Truths
Reteller of Truths


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + float + Scavenger - ($10)
Bigby draws
Worker - ($9)
Aven and Flagbearer kill Orpal
Reputable Newsman - ($7)
Tech II: Truth - ($3)
Tower - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 0, draw 2


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Building Inspector (1/1A) $1 tax
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician: Reputable Newsman (0/3) $3 blocked
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • L5 Bigby Hayes (3/2)
  • Spectral Aven (2/2) Flying
  • Spectral Flagbearer (1/1) Tempting target [1-]

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Truth)
  • :heart: Tower HP: 4

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 2
  • Deck: 0
  • Disc: 6

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 9

Thoughts

Bigby draws seem to be working, think I’ll go for Truth and Retellers to sustain board presence over Garrisons this time around. $1 Deteriorate for a Flagbearer is an even trade, but patrol bonuses and Reteller swing that in my favor, so I’ll forgo Macciatus for the time being to prevent Shadow Blade from taking my cards. Orpal is a concern, though popping Illusions won’t spread runes with his maxband, physical attacks will, and that’s a problem. I’ll probably need to work in Macciatus, but for now, I’ll prioritize Retellers… if my Newsman survives, I’ll slip in a Macciatus or two before the reshuffle, though Eyes is also tempting. Prioritizing removal of Orpal to prevent -1/-1 runes, going for Tower in case of a 2-hero Meta, and aggressively patrolling to prevent Shadow Blades while my Flagbearer is down.

Set 3, Game 2, Player 1, Turn 5

P1 Black w/ Demon Taxes vs P2 Blue

Starting Hand

Sacrifice the Weak
Shadow Blade
Jandra, the Negator
Skeleton Javelineer
Deteriorate

Events of Turn:


Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (8)
  • Tech 2 cards in (except turn 1)
All Teched Cards

Zarramonde, the Obliterator, Sickness
Sickness, Blackhand Dozer
Shadow Blade, Shrine of Forbidden Knowledge
Soul Stone, Twilight Baron


Main:

  • Imp trades with BI
  • Replay Imp, discard #1 of 2 (5)
  • Tech 2 Demonz (1)
  • Worker (0)
Workers

Skeleton Javelineer, Skeletal Archery, Pestering Haunt, Poisonblade Rogue, Summon Skeletons

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 4 Draw 5
  • Tech 2 cards before my next turn

Board Info:

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • Tech1 HP: 5
  • Tech 2 HP: 5 Demonology
  • Hero’s Hall HP: 4

In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Thieving Imp (2/2+1armor)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger: Vandy (2/3 lvl 1)
  • :exhaust: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Graveyard (3hp)

Economy Info:

Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 0
  • Disc: 6

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 9

End of Turn Hand

Twilight Baron
Sickness
Soul Stone
Shrine of Forbidden Knowledge
Blackhand Dozer

End of Turn Discard
My Thoughts

Truth needs cards, so keep bleeding cards I think. This is super tough though


P2T5


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Macciatus, The Whisperer
Macciatus, The Whisperer


STARTING HAND
Arrest
Manufactured Truth


WORKERS
Bluecoat Musketeer
Jail
Porkhand Magistrate
Traffic Director


NextHand

Spectral Flagbearer
Macciatus, The Whisperer


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($9)
Arrest - ($7)
General Onimaru - ($5)
Aven and Flagbearer kill Vandy
Bigby breaks Graveyard

Float ($5)
Discard 0, reshuffle, draw 2


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician: Reputable Newsman (0/3) $3 blocked
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • L5 Bigby Hayes (3/2)
  • L3 General Onimaru (2/3) Frenzy 1
  • Spectral Aven (2/2) Flying

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Truth)
  • :heart: Tower HP: 4

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 2
  • Deck: 10
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 5
  • Workers: 9

Thoughts

Looks like he’s given up on Meta and is going for Zarramonde, maybe? If so, I’ll need to get the Flagbearers/Reterller combo in place before Zarra lands; hopefully Oni can help with that. Gonna skip a worker to take down the Graveyard to stem the bleeding of my cards. I’m kind of tempted to tech in a spell or two to try and slow his progress, but with such a long cycle, that wouldn’t be much help long-term, so I’ll double down on Illusion buffing… if I can keep the Newsman alive, I won’t have to worry about Shadow Blade punishing the Macciatus play, and with this board advantage, I might be able to pull that off.