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A Balanced Clash: 1st of it's Name - In Progress!


LLL4 is closing in on its final days, so let’s get another long-form tourney going! This one’s going to be a variant on Persephone’s Pick Your Poison.

A Balanced Clash (ABC)

1st Of It’s Name, Long May It Reign


  • Double elimination
  • Best of 7
  • Medium timer
  • Double KO is a win for both players, unless it would cause both to win the set.
  • Counterpicks are restricted to the allowed counterpicks (see the bottom of this post)
  • Loser may choose whether to stay in the same matchup, select from an allowed counterpick, or select any character and allow the winner to select an allowed counterpick.
  • Matches will be played weekly!
  • No EX characters (obviously)
  • The first game of the match will be picked as-if the higher seeded player had won the last match; that is the higher-seeded player picks a character, and then the lower-seed counterpicks or chooses to pick freely and allow the higher-seed to counterpick.

Signups will be open until Saturday, Feb 2nd at 11:59 PM UTC, with opening round conversations going out the next day. Confirm your signup, or feel free to ask any questions you may have here.

  1. vengefulpickle
  2. ArthurWynne
  3. flagrantangles
  4. mysticjuicer
  5. Xiba
  6. Niijima-san?
  7. CarpeGuitarrem
  8. Caralad
  9. SouthpawHare
  10. CKR
  11. Ivan
  12. JonnyD
  13. snoc
  14. MR
  15. Mastrblastr
  16. Bob199
  17. Hobusu

Allowed Counterpicks

(These are selected as the top 6 most balanced matchups for each character)

Character Counterpick
:argagarg: :geiger: :argagarg: :troq: :grave: :vendetta: :menelker:
:bbb: :menelker: :bbb: :lum: :troq: :gwen: :midori:
:degrey: :degrey: :geiger: :grave: :vendetta: :gloria: :zane:
:geiger: :menelker: :geiger: :gwen: :degrey: :argagarg: :persephone:
:gloria: :onimaru: :gloria: :lum: :degrey: :valerie: :menelker:
:grave: :grave: :menelker: :degrey: :onimaru: :argagarg: :setsuki:
:gwen: :gwen: :geiger: :setsuki: :vendetta: :rook: :jaina:
:jaina: :jaina: :quince: :grave: :midori: :gwen: :troq:
:lum: :midori: :lum: :troq: :gloria: :menelker: :quince:
:menelker: :bbb: :menelker: :geiger: :grave: :persephone: :lum:
:midori: :midori: :onimaru: :lum: :troq: :setsuki: :menelker:
:onimaru: :midori: :onimaru: :gloria: :grave: :zane: :lum:
:persephone: :geiger: :persephone: :rook: :menelker: :vendetta: :gloria:
:quince: :quince: :vendetta: :jaina: :setsuki: :valerie: :lum:
:rook: :troq: :rook: :vendetta: :valerie: :persephone: :geiger:
:setsuki: :setsuki: :midori: :quince: :valerie: :rook: :grave:
:troq: :troq: :rook: :midori: :lum: :argagarg: :vendetta:
:valerie: :valerie: :rook: :setsuki: :gloria: :quince: :menelker:
:vendetta: :vendetta: :rook: :quince: :degrey: :troq: :argagarg:
:zane: :zane: :onimaru: :degrey: :midori: :lum: :vendetta:


On Challonge


I’m in!

So game one of each set is “anything goes”, right?


Oops! No, I meant to specify the opening game as well. My intention was to have the higher-seeded player pick first, and the lower-seed counterpick. I’ll update the rules.


I’m in! I rather enjoy that Geiger is allowable against so much of the cast.


In as well!


I’m in! GO GO GO


I might actually be interested in this one. Nice tournament idea dude.


Funky format, I’m willing to give it a shot. I mean…<looks at Onimaru’s counterpick list>

Rewards flex play a lot, which is really interesting. I wanna see how this goes.


A tournament where I don’t have to worry about rook vs bbb? count me in


I’m in.

@vengefulpickle IMO I think the lower-seeded player should get to choose who picks first and who counterpicks. I think the way you have it now could be an advantage for one player or the other based on the situation.


Possibly the best alternative format that I have seen. I am interested to see how live matches play, so I will join.


Sign me in, pls!


put me in.


That’s already baked in. The low-seed (in the first game) or the loser (in any following game) gets to counterpick or to free-pick and then let themselves be counterpicked.


Out of curiosity, I went through and counted up how many characters each character could be chosen as a counterpick against.

Surprise winners (to me): Menelker (10), Vendetta (9), and Troq (8)
Unsurprising Losers: BBB (2), Zane (3), Jaina (3) (cementing them all at the top or the bottom of the cast)

Character Allowed against
:argagarg: 5
:bbb: 2
:degrey: 6
:geiger: 7
:gloria: 6
:grave: 7
:gwen: 4
:jaina: 3
:lum: 7
:menelker: 10
:midori: 7
:onimaru: 5
:persephone: 4
:quince: 6
:rook: 7
:setsuki: 6
:troq: 8
:valerie: 5
:vendetta: 9
:zane: 3


OK, LLL’s winding up and I think I can handle one game a week, so put me in!


@vengefulpickle So what you’re telling me is Troq is a fair and balanced character


I’m as shocked as you are, but data doesn’t lie. :grin:


He has 5-5 match-ups against his worst counter-picks, and then dumpsters the rest of the cast. :slight_smile:


Hey hey!
Sign me up for this one too!

And, oh well you could sign me up by default for all tourneys, so there’s no risk I can forget it!