Probably true, yea. Tech 0,1 and heroes. In monogreen, this also lets Mimic still copy haste and go, which is nice.
But as for impact, imagine my last tournie game against bansa. He could easily have destroyed molac the way my last turn went. I would have had to play much more carefully to keep molac viable, giving room for him to burn me down. Most games I’ve seen with molac often have the turn its activated leave a nearly empty board.
This conversation is drifting into balance tweaks land, but I think the vibe I’m getting is “balance tweaks” as an XCAPS wrinkle is of broad interest, is that a fair assessment?
I think it’s time for a poll!
0 voters
Happy to run a “model’s choice” format again, if people would like one.
@FrozenStorm since it’s early, could we get multiple votes enabled?
Can’t change it after 5 minutes, it’s fine to have 1 in the service of decisiveness
The last tweeks x-format had such major changes to every color, feels good to do a more minimalist version.
Discourse is whack, hope it never does this on a winning tie.
If the MoLaC change is too contentious, I’m happy to drop it.
I want to keep the changes very very small, as big changes have huge, unforeseen far-reaching impact that is not immediately obvious.
My goal with my list is to create a standard set of community accepted minor nerfs to overperforming cards. If we can’t accept a nerf, discard it, and we can return to it later. I want to make a new standard for our forum play that leads to more interesting decisions, because there are less “always correct” choices.
Also given that molac is receiving such interesting discussion, I’d like to hear some thoughts on the Garth change. It is probably the most major change I listed, so I’m curious what people think of it.
Oh also, I will propose one final potential change, one I have mentioned before, but this might be totally unnecessary. I’m just aware of the power of white as it stands, so I will put this one as a “I dunno maybe?”
Bird’s Nest:
When Bird’s Nest is destroyed, destroy 2 of your Birds.
This is to prevent the Birds staying around forever after Rook dies and causing chaos. However, it’s possible this is too great of a nerf for the card. Another suggestion I have seen is “Upkeep: Resummon 1 lost Bird” which is also a pretty big nerf, but maybe more reasonable. I think if the opponent has to build a Tower to deal with the birds, the card has succeeded, so maybe it’s ok to leave it as is.
No problems with the Garth change, he needs toning down. I’d be more curious to see whether people would still take Anarchy II.
I also agree with the Garth nerf.
I’d go with the more moderate nerf to Bird’s Nest.
btw, weren’t some of these changes tested in one of the previous X tournaments? What were the community’s conclusions, if any?
Most of them were, but as a few changes among many. I don’t think they came up in the post-XCAFS20 change discussion, but they might have been in individual match threads. The nerf to Vandy came along with nerfs to Dark Pact and the Black starter, which gave Black a rough early game.
Originally I was going to propose only four ideas, now I’ve proposed six. I think we should discard the bird’s nest change, keep it very minimal.
Im opposed to the birds nest change, in favor of minimalism. I’m on the fence about Garth. I think 2/4 at lvl 4 is mostly fine. Its close enough id rather leave it and see how the other 4 do.
If we stick with just the original 4, and change Molac to have “destroy when you control no units.” or something. I think we have a good minimal set of changes.
Original 4 + Molac “destroy when you control no units.” seconded!
Interesting, why are you opposed to the Garth change? I often feel he’s a very safe hero, too safe for what he does.
Adding the clause was intended to be instead of the original proposed molac nerf, which was one of the four. I can see my wording was unclear though.
Garth is a stalling hero. His hp reflects that ability. He makes disposable units and has decent hp, but not as good as a true combat hero. Reducing his hp at mid basically removes his function as a stalling hero. Maybe its needed, i dunno, but it feels likes its one too many changes when aiming for “minimal”
For easy reference, here’s his printed stats and abilities:
Level 1-3: ATK: 1 • HP: 3 • ① → Summon a 1/1 black Skeleton token. Once-per-turn.
Level 4-6: ATK: 2 • HP: 4 • Sacrifice a Skeleton → Draw a card.
Level 7: ATK: 3 • HP: 4 • Max Level: You may put a tech I or II unit that costs ⑤ or less from your discard pile into play if you meet the tech reqs for it.
I’ve always thought he seemed similar to Arg in a way, so maybe that’s why his midband stat jump felt a bit high to me… Maxband being strong makes sense in the context of Metamorphosis, but I wouldn’t be opposed to either his ATK or his HP being reduced at midband.
So, you’re saying he needs Arg/Quince stats 
I actually think if you made no other changes to Garth besides 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, ( or maybe 1/3, 1/4, 2/4?) he might be fine w/ just that and LB to 6 damage on base.
I like MOLAC change to “Destroy if you don’t have units”. That’s a solid risk-reward function for that card, gives outs to a ton of specs against it (Law, Past, any haste or direct unit removal, Necro even w/ Death Rites), keeps the fun of haste comboing with it
I do think Dark Pact is missing from the “minimal changes” though. I think maybe we haven’t seen Nightmare played enough in tournies lately to remember how brutal that can be, but card draw can’t be that free.
Bird’s Nest probably should be in the list too but for the purposes of keeping it minimal I’m fine excluding it for now
I can accept the Might of Leaf and Claw destruction change as a simple alternative.
I think of Garth more similar to Drakk than any other hero. He’s a hero with very strong abilities and good spells, and is generally worth sinking gold into at any stage of the game for advancing your board or applying pressure. I think his midband is just too healthy and makes him stick a little too well to the board.
Dropping Bird’s Nest is ideal, let’s keep it minimal.
I think removing Vandy resist really opens up space to deal with her. Snapback, Origin Story, Flame Arrow, Tricycloid, Doom Grasp, Nether Drain, Sickness, Wither… all these become just a little easier to use to deal with her, which makes a big difference in affecting her safety.