This hasn’t been asked before (kind of shocked?) If I have a Graveyard and a Reteller of Truths in play, and one of my illusion units dies, does it go to my hand or the Graveyard? I think the answer is my hand because Reteller talks about “first time” but I think it’s ambiguous enough it’s worth an ask.
I remember this issue being raised and adjudicated as being active player decides, but I’m having trouble finding the ruling. EDIT: Okay, it wasn’t an official ruling, but it was an assertion that went unchallenged by anyone in a part of this thread where sharpobject was actively posting. Makes sense to me, too, Graveyard and Reteller trigger off the same event, if and when Reteller is eligible to trigger at all. And it has been ruled that once a card has been pulled out of the discard by Graveyard or similar, then other such effects will fizzle when they resolve.
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I was watching this game, and at several points one of the players triggers Insurance Agent after playing Judgement Day. I didn’t think that was legal, and I thought there was a ruling saying so, but when I went looking for it, I couldn’t find it. Can you claim insurance if your agent died simultaneously with the insurance target? I guess another way of asking the same thing is, can IA insure himself and claim when he dies?
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Yes to both. It’s the same interaction as when Judgement Day is played while a Bugblatter is out.
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Thanks, my codex rules knowledge is clearly just rusty 
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I have another question, this time prompted by this game. When a unit becomes a copy of another unit, does it keep any “one-time effects” which were previously affecting it (I’m assuming Vandy’s maxband counts as a “one-time effect”). I had assumed that Polymorph: Squirrel worked the same way as copy effects (like Manufactured Truth, or Quince), but we have a ruling stating that P:S removes all “one-time effects” from its target.
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@Jadiel Can you quote the ruling you’re referring to? Cause I found the following one from sharpo which seems to contradict it:
@Jadiel Can you quote the ruling you’re referring to? Cause I found the following one from sharpo which seems to contradict it:
Sorry, I should have done that in the earlier post - it’s the first Polymorph: Squirrel ruling from Sirlin:
Transforming into a Squirrel does not count as a new unit entering play. No “arrive” happens here. If the unit had any baggage, such as +1/+1 runes, an ongoing spell such as a Soul Stone or Spirit of the Panda, or damage on it, all of that will still be on it when it Transforms. Though it loses all printed abilities it has and loses all one-time effects that other things might have granted it before the transform, it still benefits from one-time effects that happen to it after the transform and it still benefits from +1/+1 runes that are on it, and attachments such as Spirit of the Panda. — Sirlin, 03/19/16
ETA: I looked at Sharpo’s comment that you referred to, and it sounds like he’s basically saying that Sirlin got it wrong. If that’s correct, then fine (but it might be a good idea to take the ruling off codexcarddb?)
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Sirlin’s "one-time effects’ is a vague category. I read that as Ferocity, Elite Training, and such.
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Hmmmm, those seem like different types to me. I thought Ferocity was a global effect which applies to all units you control, regardless of whether they were in play when you played the spell. I would think it definitely applies to a copied/transformed unit. Elite Training seems like a ‘one-time effect’, but I’m not sure why you think it’s categorically different to Vandy’s maxband.
There’s this about Ferocity:
Given there isn’t a new unit arriving, I don’t see how Ferocity would be different here.
Is the definition of one-time effects anything the ends at the end of the turn (or another preset duration)?
It doesn’t really make narrative sense to me that those effects wouldn’t be continued. It’s not obvious to me that there’s a strong balance-breaking edge case where this matters. Maybe there is though. I wish there was a bit of a why story along with obscure rulings like this.
No, I don’t think so (although I think that would cover 99% of one-time effects). For example, I think Drakk’s maxband is a one-time effect.
My understanding is as follows: Essentially, there are two types of effect. ‘One-time effects’ (I’m not sure this is really a great name for them - I only used it because it was in the original ruling), look at the battlefield when they resolve, and ‘stick to’ any relevant entities (e.g. Ferocity, Discord). I think the effect remains even if the entity no longer satisfies the original criteria (e.g. If you play Ferocity, and then I Kidnapping your unit, does it still have swift strike when I attack with it?). The other type of effect is usually ongoing, and is constantly checking entities on the battlefield to see if it should apply. Most of these effects are obvious (e.g. Moss Ancient, Battle Suits, etc), but some of them are less so. I think Channeled spells should fall into the latter category (Behind the Ferns, Dreamscape), although there’s nothing in the card text which makes this clear. Fox’s Den Students is also unusual in that its lasting effect (“This turn, your ninja units have haste and stealth”) seems to be in the latter category, even though it doesn’t seem semantically different from something like Ferocity.
Going with sharpo’s version sounds good. I think that’s how we’ve been playing it here, anyway.
Presumably, this implies effects stick to specific cards, as it were, given that another relevant ruling is that copying units with one time effects does not copy the effects.
Drakk’s max level ability grants Haste to units permanently. — sharpo, 11/24/16
Sounds like Drakk’s maxband would be a “one-time effect” only if the term is dramatically misnamed… which to your credit is your larger point here.
Channeled spells are literally classified as ongoing, so they certainly should apply just as you’re saying.
I believe that all cases where a non-ongoing spell adds an attribute (excluding runes) to a creature it has a given duration, usually to the end of turn. Drakk’s maxband is a weird exception where the effect is permanent but there’s no marker to indicate it, probably because it’s effectively a one-shot except for being sneaky with wandering mimic or whatnot. The game would be cleaner if Drakk gave the unit a “haste rune.”
That is a relevant ruling! That makes sense, because you may not want to allow a powerful one-time effect to be copied.
I think the direction is different in the transform case.
Consider manufactured truth cast on Unit A to copy Unit B.
If unit B has a one time effect, Unit A does not get to copy it. Makes sense.
If Unit A has a one time effect, when it transforms to copy Unit B, should Unit A lose the one time effect?
Yeah this, it can’t be copied.
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Ferocity is not in fact a global effect. Moment’s Peace isn’t even a global affect, its simply an effect on the player who played it, rather than on a global effect. Ferocity does not effect anything that was not in play when Feroicity was played. It applies a one time effect to the current set of units, with a duration.