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Suppose my opponent has Zane out, and he gets maxbanded on my turn. Do I then choose one of their patrollers to be shoved? If so, and this results in a scavenger or a technician kill, presumably the opponent then gets the bonus twice?

If an opponent’s unit or hero requires a choice on your turn, and it doesn’t say “active player” like on some Demonology cards, then instead nothing happens.


Double check this with @sharpobject or someone, but the general rule (from Reteller of Truths, at least) is that the game keeps track of which thing is “first” - so multiple Sentries are redundant, and they will both try to prevent the same “first” point of damage.

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If I have a indestructible unit (like “Hardened Mox”) and put that unit in the patrol zone (on either Scavenger, dies +1 gold OR Technician, dies +1 card) do I get the bonuses of either plus gold or card when somebody deals lethal damage to my unit?

No, because indestructible prevents it from dying.

Hey guys, I think you have everything covered.

  • Tokens are always tokens and cannot stop being tokens, but can become tech 1 or whatever.

  • Your technician will go to your discard pile before you draw a card from the technician bonus. (there are some dark corners of the rules caused by this fact)

  • You will draw cards from dark pact before that dark pact goes to your discard pile.

  • I don’t think I specifically commented on Cursed Ghoul coming out of Prynn on the non-disease player’s turn, but I think this should work the same way as Bamstamper Lizzo, and I think the non-fire player should never get to deal 3 damage using Bamstamper Lizzo, so I also think the non-disease player should never get to place the -1/-1 rune using Cursed Ghoul. Sorry if this all feels kind of arbitrary.

  • I guess Sentry’s “choose randomly” should work the same way as Second Chances’s “choose randomly.” Previously:

    If you have 2 copies of Second Chances and you have n>1 units that leave play simultaneously such that they’re eligible for Second Chances, and you don’t let your Graveyard or Reteller move too many of them somewhere else, you’ll get exactly 2 back.

    so I guess if you have some first spell or ability source of damage in a turn that is dealing damage to multiple patrollers simultaneously, and you have 2 sentries, you will get to prevent 1 damage on each of 2 different patrollers.
    In the more common case where the first spell or ability source of damage in a turn that is dealing damage to one of your patrollers deals damage to only one patroller, you will not get anything from the additional sentry’s ability.


Well, thats what I thought about indestructible first as well, but this text: “Indestructible (If this would die, exhaust it and remove all damage and attachments from it instead. You can’t sacrifice it.)” made me wonder. It clearly says “If this would DIE,…” and on the technician patroller it says: “Dies: +1 card”. Thats why I thought you can get the bonus from technician.
Any more explanation on this? If the text on the Hardened Mox would be something like “…if this would take lethal damage…” instead of “if this would die…” I would agree that the technician bonus would not work, but as it is now I clearly think it should work.

Sounds to me like the crucial word here is “instead”. Also the fact that it’s “if this would die”, and not “if this dies”.


Ok, but usually Sirlin doesn’t use the same word for similar meanings if he doesn’t mean the same thing (for example, “thrash” instead of “destroy”) Thats why I got confused. But if I got it confirmed that the rules are as you and Nekoatl mean then I won’t complain (other then hoping for Sirlin to change the confusing text to next version of description of “Indestructible”. Or explain it on Codex Card db, so the text doesn’t confuse more ppl. Thanks =)

So how would you phrase indestructible? It uses Dies because people know what it means for something to die, so doing something instead of dying makes sense (and they know when to apply it). The important part here is that it didnt die, it did something else instead.

Something similar would be “If you would draw, discard a card instead” you wouldn’t be asking if you drew a card here, its obvious you didn’t, you had to discard instead.

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Well, first of all the obvious; Im not native english/american speaking so it might be that it wasn’t as clear for me as for the rest of you guys.

And I would phrase it as I gave an example over above if you read that post. There I wrote the example like this: “…if this would take lethal damage…” Anyway, I accept that the rules are like this when you all guys say that. Im not arguing to be right here. I’m just saying that I was interpreting the indestructible explanation like this “If this would die”, then trigger all the text after the “,” That is why I thought all the other effect which also would be triggered with the word “die” would happen (like the technician bonus). Because the explanation of Indestructible on codex card db starts exactly (If this would die, exhaust it and remove all damage and attachments from it instead. You can’t sacrifice it…)

The problem with “lethal damage” is that it doesnt deal with “destroy target creature” or -1/-1 runes, theres not really a good way of getting everyway that something could die, except by saying if it would die.

I not trying to say the wording is the clearest, it obviously isn’t, but I can’t personally think of a clear way of wording it without making it take 4-5 lines, which then by the nature of such, make it unclear. I was just wondering if you had a nice wording.


“If … would die … instead …” means that when circumstances would normally cause it to die, it doesn’t actually die, but instead of dying, it does something else described in the ability. There’s not a problem with the wording, so I guess it’s just a language barrier thing.

The case where something happens when a unit dies, and the unit does still actually die, is handled by “When … dies …”, or simply “Dies:” as a shorthand way of referring to when the thing with the ability dies.

So, you can look for those wordings to tell whether or not an ability allows something to die and trigger abilities that react to death. Basically, when circumstances would cause something to die, check for any ability that prevents the death first, and if there aren’t any, only then does it actually die and trigger abilities that react to it dying.


Can I summon a 1/1 Skeleton if all the Skeleton tokens already are in play? Is it OK to use something else as a Skeleton token? Or are the players always limited to the number of token card available?

The only limits for tokens are those described in the rules or on the cards, so you can use other cards as substitutes if you run out.


A few questions about “sacrificing” and “leaving play”:

  1. Say I have a Gilded Glaxx and some floating gold. Can I “sacrifice” Glaxx to Doom Grasp, keep him, and still get the spell’s effect?
  2. Say I have Second Chances in play. Can I sacrifice a non-token unit to Doom Grasp, keep it thanks to 2nd chances, and still get the spell’s effect?
  3. Say I have a non-token illusion, a Mirror copying that illusion thanks to Quince’s maxband, and Second Chances in play. My opponent now targets my OG illusion, which gets saved by 2nd chances. Does the Mirror illusion get trashed?
  1. No, Gilded Glaxx’s ability states that it can’t be sacrificed, same as Pestering Haunt. From Doom Grasp’s rulings:

The “if you do” clause is not satisfied if you try to sacrifice something that can’t be sacrificed such a Gilded Glaxx that “can’t leave play.”

  1. Yes. When the unit returns to play, it’s considered as a fresh instance, so the original was indeed sacrificed. From Second Chances’s rulings:

Second Chances will save units affected by… Doom Grasp (whether it was the sacrifice effect OR destroy effect!)…

  1. Yes, for the same reason: the original instance is sacrificed and leaves play, at which point the Mirror gets trashed.

Part of the clarification comes from the fact that second chances does not replace the event of leaving play. When something returns using second chances, it comes back as a whole new instance of that unit,. no damage, no runes, no attachments, and “arrives” effects are triggered. So the events around leaving play still happen, it still died, or was sacrificed, or was trashed, but it comes back.


How do Brave Knight and Second Chances interact?

Is the Brave Knight leaving play from combat damage, or from its own ability?


Brave Knight’s ability prevents it from dying to combat damage, so the combat damage doesn’t successfully cause it to leave play. The actual cause of it leaving play is Brave Knight’s ability, so Second Chances should trigger if it hasn’t already during the turn. Nice combo.