My understanding (which may be wrong) was that if you ever had a unit with Fading and it gets its last rune removed for ANY reason, it dies.
I thought the only reason for confusion on this was the bad wording on Prynn, where it has been ruled that her midband (making the opponent skip their next discard/draw phase) which applies when she “dies from fading” actually only happens when she loses her last rune “naturally” during upkeep - and here it was said that “dies from fading” does only refer to this particular way of removing the last rune. BUT she - and anything else with fading - DOES still die whenever the last rune is removed. It’s just not called “dying from fading” any more
I may have got myself totally confused and be wrong though
I searched the rules thread for fading questions and most of them are related to Prynn instead to fading units in general. The only two times the specific issue of fading units dying when their last time rune is removed by an spell or ability is mentioned are at posts #347 and #385.
In the first instance EricF defines fading as two abilities that include the unit being sacrificed when the last time rune is removed, no requirement of the controller being the one removing it. (I can’t find any directions on how to quote here, guidance would be appreciated)
EricF, post #347
Fading is two separate abilities:
Arrives: Put X time runes on this. When the last one is removed, sacrifice this (even if this no longer has Fading).
Upkeep: Remove a time rune from this.
side note: “Dies from fading” means “dies as a result of ability #2 removing the last time rune”
In the second instance EricF asks this exact question on whether the sacrifice clause in the fading ability can be satisfied by someone not controlling the unit, and got the following responses:
Zhavier, post #386
Wow, that would be weird. I’d like to suggest the last sentence be Errata’s to “When the last time rune is removed, sacrifice this.”
rabid_schnauzer, post #389
I know I pointed out that in 2HD, Seer, Timkerer and Time Spiral can be used to keep your partner’s Fading cards from ever triggering the sacrifice clause of fading months ago.
Though at no point was it confirmed officially that it is intended for fading units to not die when their last time rune is removed by an opponent. And MVashM’s example concerns the technique a fading unit’s controller uses to remove the time rune and doesn’t mention the opponent.
yes he did! he used many times seers to kill opponent’s fading argonauts and prynns!D:
EDIT: unless i am remembering it wrong and he used it to remove the time runes just to have them fading on opponent’s turn. @____@
This still leaves some wiggle room. Note sharpobject’s summarizing of the ability as “when the last one is removed” which is agnostic about who does the removing. It’s possible that the bolded you in the fading help text is a use of the universal “you” to mean “anyone” like in a declarative “when you’re hungry, you eat.” …or it’s possible it really does mean “you” as in “you, the controller of the thing with fading.”
Another possibility is that it’s similar to the “Sac the Weak” ruling in free for all: it doesn’t give you any gold because it isn’t you who is destroying the units, but rather Sac the Weak forces your opponents to sacrifice the units themselves. In a similar way, fading could be a thing where you (the controller of the thing with fading) are always the person who is removing or adding time runes to things, even if you are being forced to by an effect controlled by your opponent.
I think it has to be clarified from on high either way. Personally, I really hope you can kill your opponent’s fading stuff by removing the last time rune from it.
Oh I see - that still talks about “you”. I guess we’re still unclear what happens if the opponent causes the removal. (But I would be bemused if it wasn’t that “the thing dies”.)
And note that the ruling above from @sharpobject doesn’t contradict anything I’m saying. He is talking about the specific case of Free Speech on Prynn, which - amongst other things - removes her “fading” ability. So if you manage to remove the last rune from your own Prynn when she is under Free Speech, it makes sense that, since she at that moment no longer has fading, she doesn’t die. And then the “if you somehow have something with fading in play with 0 time runes…” ruling kicks in.
Exactly. And I agree that the “intuitive” thing to happen is that it should kill the thing rather than make it live indefinitely, but the intuitive thing isn’t always correct.
If opponent assimilate my graveyard that has one of my units, can he uses its exhaust ability right away to summon my unit to his board?
Does the assimilated graveyard have arrival fatigue?
Just want to check: gaining control of things (with assimilate or mind control) gives them arrival fatigue, but they don’t get their “arrives” effects, right?
Right. ‘Arrival Fatigue’ applies to any card which wasn’t under your control at the start of your turn. It actually has nothing to do with entering play (which is when ‘Arrives:’ abilities trigger)
I can’t use Final Smash to steal back a unit which my opponent cast Mind Control on, right? Or rather, I can (it’s a legal target), but Mind Control will mean that my opponent instantly gets it back.
Huh. I would assume that Final Smash gives you the unit back permanently, since there’s no end to the control effect of Final Smash. Same logic as if you Mind Controlled a unit that your opponent had Mind Controlled.
Hello guys. Quick question just want to check if my play was legal. I played hive then omegcron with forecast 6. I then sacrificed the 5 stingers to remove 5 time runes from omegacron. I then max band Geiger who trashed hive and then returned hive to play resummoning 5 stingers. Was that legal thx
That’s specifically in the case of “new triggers” though. Hmm. Though it raises the question of whether Final Smash does anything at all to a unit controlled by Mind Control, if Mind Control is “continuously applied.” So like, you Final Smash, take the unit back, but then Mind Control immediately takes it away from you again?
