Hi everyone,
I’m volunteering to run another tournament, if we have at least 6 participants.
If we are enough, do you prefer to play some X version or to do some more tweaks to the balance patch?
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I think I would like to try if I will sometimes be corrected in the rules if I do something wrong
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@zango I’ll play of course. Still plenty of matchups to test for our balance patch, so I’m in favor of a standard tourny, but if someone has a cool idea for an X format I could be persuaded.
@Qwzmda Welcome to the forums! And don’t worry about rules/spreadsheet mistakes, we all make them and it’s never a big deal.
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I’ve got a crazy tournament idea.
Actually it’s not really crazy and might turn out super boring, I don’t know.
The first two hands of codex are actually surprisingly high variance; having or not having a certain card in your opening hand can make or break certain matchups.
So let’s imagine a world where we can choose our opening hand. That’s it. Out of your 10 starting cards, choose five, before the game starts.
Or, for a variation on that, every starter deck is ordered exactly the same every game.
The reason I’m suggesting this is because I wonder how much draw variance affects the first two turns, and thus, the outcome of the entire game.
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I’m a big fan of reducing variance - that idea is great!
Good idea bryce! I will not play the next tournament (need a short break from active playing) but I will give you my thoughts.
The problem is that some combinations are too strong, eg black godhand followed by det and stw. So it would give p1 player a big advantage. Another aspect is that it makes it even more complicated for less expierenced players. Zango and I thought a lot about the starting hands. If soneone is not really careful and checking all possibilities he will be even more behind than in a normal game.
To take out the starting variation, maybe you define for each colour p1 and p2 the starting hand and it is the same for all players. (Not the optimal but quite good to offer 2 different ways)
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@FrozenStorm @Penatronic @thehug0naut @zhavier @Shadow_Night_Black @OffKilter @cstick @dwarddd @charnel_mouse @flagrantangles
Hi to you all. Anyone of you interested in another tourney and if yes - what are your thoughts on the above?
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I’d be game to do a “set your draw mono tourney”, I like @Moby_Dick 's suggestion to fix the P1 and P2 for all players
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I actually prefer Bryce’s original idea: it gives players a chance to show their skill, and adds some variation to games. Plus, thinking practically, it’d be hard to “decide by committee” what are the ideal splits for each starter, although limiting it to mono-color will help a little.
I don’t think we have to aim for ideal splits. Ideal in my world would be balanced, but even if there is a small imbalance included: so what? Everybody will see the splits beforehand and can show their skill by then picking the “best” codex 
But tbh: I would be game to play with pre chosen splits as well as with “choose yourself” but I really don’t want to do the work of proposing well balanced splits. I would probably go the random walk route with small adjustments if something looks terrible.
About mono/multicolor: I would prefer multicolor, but I’m also in with mono.
Is the main complaint with choosing draw on the first turn lack of balance or the extra time used in setting first draws before the first turn is posted? Or am i missing something else?
I would be game for such a tourney, and also will mention here an interest in a draft tournament with codicies being picked for each game for a future one, if others would be interested!
Edit: sorry, hadnt read the whole thread. I have no good solutions but how about something where the p1 and p2 hands must be considered together so for each starter we must find two starting hands therefore splitting the “better” cards? So the P1 starting hand is the complement of the p2 starting hand? Mixed with a bit of intentional nerfing (avoiding the perfect Black P1 hand) it could end well
I’m game for any tournament format. @Bryce_The_Rice’s idea sounds like a really simple and great modification. The additional skill component really appeals to my over analytical brain. I’d also prefer to not need to work through a committee process to choose the hands.
Having a choose your own with a ban list could be a happy middle ground? Is Black “god hand” the only one we can think that would be an obvious issue?
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Well white start with AS + combat hero followed by hook& SA or neutral starter with all the relevant combat tricks in T2, red start with dog+combat hero followed by bogre makes an pretty impressive turn 3 and so on. I think this modification will result in an even bigger P1/P2 imbalance. But I’m in line with your summary of the situation, @thehug0naut
The process of trying to find a fair solution really is going to be… uarg…
How about we just stick to the original suggestion of @Bryce_The_Rice but plan for every matchup to have two matches, covering both sides being P1 once?
I would then adjust the elimination limit to 4 losses or maybe even 5 losses.
No matter what we agree upon in the end, I’ll start the tournament thread later today with a sign-up time of one week, then we even make it close to the traditional starting date for a fall tournament. If we need more time to agree on things, obviously we can postpone the start.
I’m really looking forward to it!
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Well yeah, I was kind of expecting to see super dominant player one hands. That’s… what I was hoping for, because I wanted to see how much draw affects it.
That is, how often should player 1 be winning with a perfect draw? If that number is too high then… variance is the only balancing factor, but worse, it means that some games you simply lose because player 1 drew well.
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