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(Homebrew Grey balance testing) charnel_mouse vs Dwarddd

P1T3

Starting hand: 5

Arcadian Double
Pivot
Exploding Goat
Exploding Goat
Choose Fate

Thoughts

Only having a Wisp in patrol means that dwarddd knows I can’t just use pivot to kill the Prospector. I could use Arcadian Double to bring in something to kill Prospector / Panda. Alternatively, I gamble on drawing a 1-cost card with Choose Fate. Out of 6 cards, I’d have 2 + ? cards I’d want, with ? being how many 0 or 1-cost cards I tech. Possibilities:

  • Story Trap: now, this is interesting. If I’ve got a specific card I think dwarddd might have double-teched, this could help deal with it. I’d rather have something for board improvement right now, though.
  • Assign Nemesis: one slight way to punish the Prospector here is to assign it the extra attack, and patrol with a 4/3+1A Shining Prince, where Taric heals its patrol damage (I think?).
  • Break (0 gold): does nothing.
  • Disrupt Narrative: add a waste card to dwarddd’s discard. It doesn’t help my board state, and he’s just reshuffled.
  • Legions Revealed: draw a card, maybe two. What I wanted to tech anyway, but it doesn’t improve my current board situation.
  • Hidden Horror: not a board improvement, but it does stop Neshama being killed. It’s a big gamble on drawing this if I play him, however.

I think Assign Nemesis looks nice for short-term board control. Is that better than using Shining Prince and Arcadian Double to kill something? I think so, it would give more cover for my Goats. I’ll add in a Goblin Sapper for my second tech, so that’s 3 cards out of 6 I’d like to draw, with 2 chances. That’s 14/15 chance to draw something, let’s go for it.

Teched cards: 2

T2: 2 x Exploding Goat
T3: Assign Nemesis, Goblin Sapper


Get paid + float - (7)
Exploding Goat - (6)
Exploding Goat #2 - (5)
Taric Isbili - (3)

Choose Fate, reshuffle 6, draw 2... - (2)

Doomed Peasant
Assign Nemesis

... and discard 1 of them

Doomed Peasant

Assign Nemesis, Shining Prince gets +2/+1, Merfolk Prospector gets +1 attack - (1)
Worker - (0)
Discard 1, draw 3
Shining Prince takes damage for patrolling, then is healed by Taric (not sure about the timing here)


:psblueshield: Shining Prince 4/3+1A (nemesis: +2/+1; frenzy 1; patrols: takes 1 damage)
:exhaust: Taric L1 2/3 (healing 1; all my healing occurs at end of turn instead of upkeep)

Exploding Goat #1 2/1 (dies if didn’t attack; dies: deal 2 to a patroller or building)
Exploding Goat #2 2/1 (dies if didn’t attack; dies: deal 2 to a patroller or building)

:heart: Base HP: 20
:heart: Tech I HP: 5


Hand: 3

Stepping Stone Villain
Gentle Giant
Goblin Sapper

Deck: 1

Fantassin

Discard: 4

Choose Fate
Doomed Peasant
Assign Nemesis
Arcadian Double

Card-count check (opponent-viewable)

Expected: 10 + 4 teched = 14
3 on board
3 in hand
1 in deck
4 in discard
3 in workers


Gold: 0
Workers: 7

4 x start
T1: Underequipped Soldier
T2: Dwarven Supplies
T3: Pivot

Interesting, we’ve been very lazy with our targeting symbols, but i see no reason that assign nemesis shouldnt target like two step - and therefore Cala’s “my units get resist” will apply. Does feel slightly weird resisting a buff, but rules are rules.

Sorry, we really need to write the target symbols on, will do in the morning.

As for if you spent all your gold before playing assign nemesis, i think that’s roughly equivalent to playing two step with only one unit on your board which i believe isnt allowed

Oh, OK. I’ll rewind, then, if you don’t mind: I wouldn’t have teched it in that case.

Oh yh you played choose fate, for sure rewind. I think a case could be made for it being non-targeting but it wasnt intended - there r no unexpected non-targeting things in Grey so far.

Thinking about this has made me realise that the fact that it targets something on both teams may be part of why chaos mirror is non-targeting; it avoid some weird cases.

Also, your understanding of Taric healing after Prince takes his damage is as we intended. Most of the starter cards sort of fit with a later spec choice/strategy and he is meant to work with Good (he is a canon-style Hero after all).

Yeah, although I think Taric’s healing would happen after patrollers are assigned, but before cards actually go into the patrol zone, so I wasn’t sure how that would play out if we went by the book. I’m fine with it working like that right now, obviously :smiley:

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Take two!

P1T3

Starting hand: 5

Arcadian Double
Pivot
Exploding Goat
Exploding Goat
Choose Fate

Thoughts

Only having a Wisp in patrol means that dwarddd knows I can’t just use pivot to kill the Prospector. I could use Arcadian Double to bring in something to kill Prospector / Panda. Alternatively, I gamble on drawing a 1-cost card with Choose Fate. Out of 6 cards, I’d have 2 + ? cards I’d want, with ? being how many 0 or 1-cost cards I tech. Possibilities:

  • Story Trap: now, this is interesting. If I’ve got a specific card I think dwarddd might have double-teched, this could help deal with it. I’d rather have something for board improvement right now, though.
  • Assign Nemesis: see previous version of this turn, if it didn’t target this would be a great option here.
  • Break (0 gold): does nothing.
  • Disrupt Narrative: add a waste card to dwarddd’s discard. It doesn’t help my board state, and he’s just reshuffled.
  • Legions Revealed: draw a card, maybe two. What I wanted to tech anyway, but it doesn’t improve my current board situation.
  • Hidden Horror: not a board improvement, but it does stop Neshama being killed. It’s a big gamble on drawing this if I play him, however.

I’ll take Legions Revealed, and set myself up better for later. Taking Tariq into play, I expect Calamandra to kill him.

Teched cards: 2

T2: 2 x Exploding Goat
T3: Goblin Sapper, Legions Revealed


Get paid + float - (7)
Exploding Goat - (6)
Exploding Goat #2 - (5)
Taric Isbili - (3)

Choose Fate, reshuffle 6, draw 2... - (2)

Gentle Giant
Goblin Sapper

... discard 1

Goblin Sapper

Worker - (1)
Discard 2, draw 4


:psblueshield: Shining Prince 2/2+1A (frenzy 1; patrols: takes 1 damage)
:exhaust: Taric L1 2/3 (healing 1; healing occurs at end of turn rather than upkeep)

Exploding Goat #1 2/1 (dies if didn’t attack; dies: active player deals 2 to a patroller or building)
Exploding Goat #2 2/1 (dies if didn’t attack; dies: active player deals 2 to a patroller or building)

:heart: Base HP: 20
:heart: Tech I HP: 5


Hand: 4

Stepping Stone Villain
Doomed Peasant
Fantassin
Legions Revealed

Deck: 0
Discard: 4

Goblin Sapper
Choose Fate
Arcadian Double
Gentle Giant

Card-count check (opponent-viewable)

Expected: 10 + 4 teched = 14
3 on board
4 in hand
0 in deck
4 in discard
3 in workers


Gold: 1
Workers: 7

4 x start
T1: Underequipped Soldier
T2: Dwarven Supplies
T3: Pivot

Sorry for taking so long, had to use every bit of codex brain power on tourney. Also sorry again for lack of targeting symbols, am adding them to spreadsheet now but nothing unexpected. (After this game may consider making assign nemesis untargeting like chaos mirror :thinking: )

P2T3


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Gigadon
Gigadon


STARTING HAND
Rampant Growth
Murkwood Allies
Forest’s Favor
Tiger Cub


WORKERS
Ironbark Treant
Rich Earth
Rampant Growth


NextHand

Huntress
Young Treant
Spore Shambler


Discard

Murkwood Allies
Forest’s Favor
Tiger Cub
Gigadon
Gigadon


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($7)
Worker - ($6)
Prospect - ($7)
Murkwood Allies 4 * 1/1 - ($2)
Forest Favour Panda - ($0)
Panda kills SQL
Cala kills tariq and maxbands

Float ($0)
Discard 1, draw 3


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Wisp(0/1a)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician: Frog(1/1)
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • L5 Calamandra(4/5) my units get resist, 4g+tap = tiger, discard 2 cards for stealth
  • Playful Panda(3/1) (+)
  • Merfolk Prospector(1/1) prospects
  • Frog(1/1) * 3

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 3
  • Deck: 1
  • Disc: 5

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 8
Thoughts

should have done behind the ferns not murkwood
patrolling light because even if the goat gets through it isn’t that bad

@charnel_mouse’s turn!

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Going to be playing very slowly at the moment, I’m afraid, work’s gotten busy.

P1T4

Starting hand: 4

Stepping Stone Villain
Doomed Peasant
Fantassin
Legions Revealed

Technician draw after reshuffling 5: 1

Arcadian Double

Thoughts

This is not great timing on my part, unfortunately: with nothing on the board to patrol with, and Legions Revealed in hand, I think I want to delay my Tech II here. dwarddd delayed his, so I suppose that’s fine. What do I tech? I suppose Drow Mighty is fine to defend against Frogs, and Pesh would help deal with Calamandra.

Teched cards: 2

T2: 2 x Exploding Goat
T3: Goblin Sapper, Legions Revealed
T4: Drow Mighty, Pesh


Get paid + float - (8)
Worker - (7)
Neshama Sepirah - (5)

Legions Revealed, I draw... - (4)

Goblin Sapper

Thoughts

Ooh, that’s a rough draw. I can’t use that card, but I also don’t want to reveal it, since it shows which spec I’m going for. I think have to, though, otherwise I’ll have a terrible card economy.

... reveal as Goblin Sapper, draw another

Shining Prince

Stepping Stone Villain - (3)
Doomed Peasant - (2)
Fantassin - (0)
Exploding Goat #1 kills Wisp
Exploding Goat #2 trades with Technician Frog, you draw, your Tech I goes to 3 HP
Discard 2, draw 2, reshuffle 6, draw 2


:psblueshield: Doomed Peasant 1/1+1A (dies: a 0/1 Undead Peasant token arrives)
:ps_: Stepping Stone Villain 1/1 (dies: is trashed)
:exhaust: Fantassin 2/2 (anti-air)

Neshama L1 1/3 (units attacking this get -1 attack and take 1 damage before combat)
Exploding Goat 2/1 (dies if didn’t attack; dies: active player deals 2 to a patroller or building)

:heart: Base HP: 20
:heart: Tech I HP: 5


Hand: 4

Choose Fate
Gentle Giant
Exploding Goat
Goblin Sapper

Deck: 4

Drow Mighty
Pesh
Legions Revealed
Shining Prince

Discard: 0
Card-count check (opponent-viewable)

Expected: 10 + 6 teched = 16
4 on board
4 in hand
4 in deck
0 in discard
4 in workers


Gold: 0
Workers: 8

4 x start
T1: Underequipped Soldier
T2: Dwarven Supplies
T3: Pivot
T4: Arcadian Double

Uhhh, looks like im being slow too so no worries! This is really interesting to play this side and be thinking about what I’m scared of in Grey

P2T4


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Murkwood Allies
Behind the Ferns


STARTING HAND
Spore Shambler
Huntress
Young Treant
Verdant Tree
Young treat → Murkwood Allies


WORKERS
Ironbark Treant
Rich Earth
Rampant Growth


NextHand

Forest’s Favor
Tiger Cub
Behind the Ferns
Gigadon


Discard

Playful Panda(3/1) (+)
Murkwood Allies
Spore Shambler
Huntress


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($8)
Young Treant, draw - ($6)
Cala kills SQL, you get undead peasant
Panda trades with technician fantassin
Frog 1/3 trades with stepping stone villain, it’s trashed you get g
Frog 2/3 trades with goat, 2 dmg to your tech 2
Frog 3/3 kills undead peasant that was spawned earlier
Merfolk Prospects - ($7)
Merfolk Allies, 4 frogs - ($2)
Verdant Tree - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 2, draw 4


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Young Treant(0/2a)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger: Frog(1/1)
  • :pschip: Technician: Frog(1/1)
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • L5 Calamandra(4/4) my units get resist, 4g+tap = tiger, discard 2 cards for stealth
  • Merfolk Prospector(1/1) prospects
  • Frog(1/1) * 3
  • Verdant Tree(3) healing 1, tap for instant tech buildings

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 2
  • Disc: 4

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 8
Thoughts

hmm so legions revealed working as intended for card draw, i cant tell if it’s fair - draw 2 for 1 gold isnt bad as you actually keep both but my main comparisons are temporal research which is a starter so different, and DP which should never be used as a standard to balance next to

My tech 2 is pretty clearly feral gigadons from here- which would best be countered by mirror knights in which case ferocity would probably be good… however i think with the number of 1/1s i have behind the ferns is too good value to ignore. Also if they r protecting anything fragile - sappers, angel’s monks, curse grounds - i can sneak past to them

@charnel_mouse’s turn!

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Well, you’re doing a pretty bang-up job so far! Putting the damage on my Tech I, I don’t have a Tech II up yet.

P1T5

Starting hand: 4

Choose Fate
Gentle Giant
Exploding Goat
Goblin Sapper

Technician draw: 1

Pesh

Thoughts

Not a good time to draw Pesh. I think teching in another Drow Mighty is the way to go here, hopefully I don’t see a Stampede later on all those weenies. My other crowd-control unit, sort of, is Hanno of Arwad over in Good II, so that’s probably not happening. I think I need to risk building Tech II now, or I completely lose control. Gentle Giant + Neshama seems like a nice patrol against this board, though, it’s hard for dwarddd to kill things without assistance.

Teched cards: 2

T2: 2 x Exploding Goat
T3: Goblin Sapper, Legions Revealed
T4: Drow Mighty, Pesh
T5: Drow Mighty, Goblin Sapper


Get paid + scavenger - (9)
Worker - (8)
Tech II Ugly - (4)
Gentle Giant - (1)
Exploding Goat - (0)
Discard 2, draw 3, reshuffle 7, draw 1


:psblueshield: Gentle Giant 1/4+1A
:exhaust: Neshama L1 1/3 (units attacking this get -1 attack and take 1 damage before combat)

Exploding Goat 2/1 (dies if didn’t attack; dies: active player deals 2 to a patroller or building)

:heart: Base HP: 20
:heart: Tech I HP: 3
:heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Ugly)


Hand: 4

Drow Mighty
Legions Revealed
Shining Prince
Pesh

Deck: 6

Doomed Peasant
Fantassin
Exploding Goat
Drow Mighty
Goblin Sapper
Goblin Sapper

Discard: 0
Trash: 1

Stepping Stone Villain

Card-count check (opponent-viewable)

Expected: 10 + 8 teched = 18
2 on board
4 in hand
6 in deck
0 in discard
1 in trash
5 in workers


Gold: 0
Workers: 9

4 x start
T1: Underequipped Soldier
T2: Dwarven Supplies
T3: Pivot
T4: Arcadian Double
T5: Choose Fate

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