7 gold (7)
Haut pokes tech 1
Worker (6)
Sparring Partner (5)
Twilight Baron (1)
Discard 1, draw 3. Float 1 gold.
SQL - Twilight Baron
Tech - Sparring Partner
Pestering Haunt
Base - 18
Tech 1 - 5
8 workers, 1 gold
Hand: 3
Deck: 1
Discard: 4
Me heat decks!
P1T4
TECH
Steam Tank
Origin Story
STARTING HAND
Chaos Mirror
Pillage
Makeshift Rambaster
WORKERS
Scorch
Bloodburn
Nautical Dog
Pillage
Mad Man
Chaos Mirror
Bombaster
Bloodrage Ogre
Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($7)
Worker - ($6)
Tech 2, Anarchy - ($2)
Float ($2)
Discard 2, draw 1, reshuffle, draw 3
[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]
[I]Squad Leader[/I]:
[I]Elite[/I]: Zane level 6 (5/4)
[I]Scavenger[/I]:
[I]Technician[/I]:
[I]Lookout[/I]:[B]Buildings:[/B]
Base HP: 20 Tech I HP: 4 Tech II HP: 5 (Anarchy)[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]
[details=P2, Turn 4]Graveyard -> Worker
Poisonblade Rouge
Sacrifice the Weak
[/details]
8 gold (9)
Worker (8)
Tech II Present (4)
Grave (2)
Baron trades with Zane, Grave to L3
Haunt hits Tech 1
Sparring Partner hits Tech 2
Discard 2, Draw 1, rs, Draw 3. Float 2 gold.
SQL - L3 Grave (3/4 +1)
Sparring Partner
Pestering Haunt
Base - 18
Tech 1 - 5
Tech 2 - 5
Spec: Present
9 workers, 1 gold
Hand: 4
Deck: 6
Discard: 0
[details=Thoughts]Well this appears to be highlighting a couple problems.
1: Zane+red starter is not a good combo for this deck.
2: Chaos mirror really not that impressive in the current setup. I know it is MUCH better with a purple starter as nullcraft+chaos mirror is a respectable turn even later in the game as a 1/1 flyer (cannot be target of buff/debuffs), a 2/2 and 3-4 flying damage this turn is respectable for a long time at 6 gold and ā2ā cards. [red] means no great targets for chaos mirror besides madman and rambaster and 2/2 and 3-4 hasty damage this turn for 5-5 gold and almost definitely 2 cards is MUCH worse.
3: 5 health as squad lead is problems for red starter, especially without a maxband drakk for free charge per turn, in addition to frenzy any thing else.
So now on to the specific problems here ā
My draw is pretty shiet for just losing zane last turn. It MIGHT be passable if I had kept zane alive somehow as 3 tech 0 and chaos mirror is no bueno.
Madman, Bombaster, Ogre are all pretty not great drops here.
If I leave up Grave he can potentially attack, maxband and sword.
Heās got 3 techs so far.
Iāve seen Baron, Sparring Partner ā probably his first techs.
Tech #2 NOW? Or Hyperion maybe? + TD
Tech #3 Hyperion + Tricycloid?
3/9 cards, with 2-3 tech 2s means heās got a good chance of it as heās holding CLOSE to 1/3rd of his possible tech 2 cards.
And not much I can do about those being really strong.
So letās maybe pretend they donāt exist for his next turn?
Grave and sparring partner both need to be dealt with to some degree or another.
Grave is potentially two of my cards/things for some gold.
Sparring partner is just really strong value each turn it continues to buff things.
Options:
WARM BODIES.EXE ā Ogre, Skeleton, Garth, Prynn, Bombaster, Worker madman.
Discard 1, draw 3.
Grave sparred up, attacks, haunt pokes tech 2, tricycloid can finish it off easily enough (5), 6 gold left for worker+tech 3 or hyperion+worker or TD+Max+workerā¦ All kinds of bad. Probably something stronger than what Iām describing here.
Stealthy see stealthy do ā
Max garth for marauder, lizzo or monkey.
Monkey kills sparring partner sits around as a 3/1.
Lizzo//Marauder + madman can kill grave leaving me with a 3/4 against sparring+pesteringhaunt
I can use Lizzo to kill sparring partner and get it back in hand, with a skeleton patroller ā even though my tech 2 is probably dead. Possibly tech 2 and tech 1, which would be absolute sucks.
Garth squadlead, skeleton in scavenger or tech, worker and hope I can make it to tech 3.
Mid range ā
2 heros, one squad leader, one behind the lines, skeleton and 1 drop, make a tower while workering and hoping I can make it out to tech 3.
I donāt know what the best of these is so lets go with the Garth plan as I hate sparring partner, it draws 5 cards (and has 6 card hand so next turn can do more, and can replay lizzo if desirable which means if my tech 2 is up next turn I have decent options for sure.[/details]
P1T5
TECH
Pirate Gunship
Chameleon Lizzo
STARTING HAND
Bombaster
Bloodrage Ogre
Mad Man
Chaos Mirror
WORKERS
Scorch
Bloodburn
Nautical Dog
Pillage
Bloodrage Ogre
Origin Story
Steam Tank
Makeshift Rambaster
Steam Tank
Careless Musketeer
Chameleon Lizzo
Mad Man
Bombaster
Chaos Mirror
Pirate Gunship
Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + float - ($10)
Worker - ($9)
Maxband Garth - ($1)
Chameleon Lizzo from discard
Skeleton - ($0)
Lizzo kills Sparring Partner, returns to hand at end of turn
Float ($0)
Discard 3, draw 5
[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]
[I]Squad Leader[/I]: Garth (3/4+A) [I]Elite[/I]: [I]Scavenger[/I]: Skeleton (1/1) [I]Technician[/I]: [I]Lookout[/I]:[B]Buildings:[/B]
Base HP: 20 Tech I HP: 3 Tech II HP: 3 (Anarchy)[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]
[details=P2, Turn 5]Thieving Imp
Temporal Distortion
Hyperion
Skeleton Javelineer
Tech Chronofixer + Now!
Draws:
Deteriorate
Sacrifice the Weak
[/details]
9 gold (10)
Hyperion (5)
Hyperion hits Garth for 4, leaving him at 1 hp, I draw
Geiger (3)
Pestering Haunt kills Garth, Geiger to L3
Max Geiger (1), flickering Hyperion
Deteriorate the Skeleton (0)
Grave breaks your Tech II
Hyperion breaks your Tech I, I draw another card
Discard 4, Draw 4, rs, Draw 1
SQL - L3 Grave (3/4 +1)
Scavenger - L5 Geiger (3/4)
Hyperion (4/5)
Base - 18
Tech 1 - 5
Tech 2 - 5
Spec: Present
9 workers, 0 gold
Hand: 5
Deck: 8
Discard: 0
[details=Next Hand]Sparring Partner
Twilight Baron
Poisonblade Rouge
Temporal Distortion
Tricycloid
[/details]
I was afraid you would have a Hyperion, not terribly much I could do about that play.
Was pretty sure I didnāt want to let the sparring partner live, but maybe I shouldāve been killing grave even though it probably would have been awful.
Maybe I should have put down a monkey instead of lizzo? Bleh.
Pretty sure I just lost there, but weāll see.
P1T6
TECH
Hooded Executioner
Lichās Bargain
STARTING HAND
Steam Tank
Origin Story
Makeshift Rambaster
Steam Tank
Careless Musketeer
WORKERS
Scorch
Bloodburn
Nautical Dog
Pillage
Bloodrage Ogre
Makeshift Rambaster
Calypso Vystari
Bombaster
Chameleon Lizzo
Charge
Bone Collector
Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + Scavenger - ($10)
Rebuild tech 1
Prynn, Origin story Grave - ($5)
Worker - ($4)
Careless Musketeer - ($2)
Heroās Hall - ($0)
Float ($0)
Discard 3, draw 3, reshuffle, draw 2
[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]
[I]Squad Leader[/I]: Prynn (1/3+A) @4
[I]Elite[/I]: [I]Scavenger[/I]: [I]Technician[/I]: Careless Musketeer (3/1) [I]Lookout[/I]:[B]Buildings:[/B]
Base HP: 16 Tech I HP: 5 Heroesā Hall HP: 4[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]
9 gold (9)
Tricycloid (4)
Grave (2)
Hyperion kils prynn, grave to L3
Tricycloid hits Musketeer for 1, and your tech 1 for 2
Temporal Distortion, return tricycloid for a second Hyperion
Geiger breaks tech 1
Hyperion breaks Heroās Hall
Discard a bunch, draw 5
SQL L3 Grave (3/4 +1)
L5 Geiger (3/4)
Hyperion (4/4)
Hyperion (4/5)
Mmmm yeah super dead.
Lessons learned so far:
Chaos mirror is FAR less impressive in a red starter, despite the haste units because theyāll probably die anyway.
IF I do want to use a red starter, Zane may actually be the worst choice. Drakk is actually threatening to have maxbanded semi-early, as is Jaina.
Zane is not terribly spooky once max band unless heās casting a bunch of sharks. Which are really expensive.
On the OTHER hand, Anarchy MAY be a more valid choice if I am using purple or black starters (as skeleton-archery + chaos mirror is about as respectable as nullcraft+chaos mirror).
Lack of a true early game offensive combat hero (2/3 summon, AND/OR a strong midband/midband ability AND/OR relatively inexpensive to mid/maxband) is once again, problematic ā probably more so than usual given Red Starterās poor initial synergy with Necro/Past stuff.
Past/Necromancy is definitely interesting.
I still am not comfortable teching any copies of lichās bargain early enough to probably be relevant. It may just be that this deck wonāt support it in red/black starters.
Still need to work on establishing tech plan and approach from an earlier stage of the game when possible.
May have had a chance if I had drawn a better T5 hand as opposed to drawing exactly one of the techād cards on T5 (and one which was dead in the hand and JUST discarded ā Prynn+Origin Story+steam tank would have been ideal).
White/Green/Blue/Neutral starters (lots of possible hero options out there, especially when also considering them in addition to black or purple starter) to be investigated at a later time probably.
Willing to go again?
If so, any suggestions for starter and/or hero swap for Zane?
Sure, lets keep going. Iām not sure what your plan is here beyond playing some stuff and trying to get good value, though?
So the gimmick plan is to delete the other playerās units with Prynn+Netherdrain (Also possibly netherdrain to keep attacking with garth and healing him by moving between mid and max band), so maybe I should be pursuing a Tech 1 + Heroās Hall strategy, and delaying Tech 2 a bit ā which I donāt REALLY like doing.
With the initial tech 2 plan probably being Necromancy or Past depending on if I am teching seer in the early-ish on or not. Necromancy lets me fetch Blackhand Resurrectors which are very strong compliments to Zane, a lesser extent Garth, and more gimmicky ā Prynn, trashing unit of yours.
Changing 3rd spec for something else probably moves towards favoring a Past tech 2 or the 3rd spec.
I donāt think multicolor [red] starter is doing me any favors right now, especially with Vandy, Deteriorate, and Sac the Weak.
Is it wrong of me to suggest Past/Peace/Necro as a squad? Cadets and Mox are pretty good at getting you to the point where Max Prynn, add a rune, banish 2 things, Nether Drain, let her die to Fading is a practical outcome.
Not particularly.
I am kind of hoping to find something that isnāt āalmost ripoff of PPAā, but I understand where you are coming from.
Peace offers a lot of good stuff to the plan with the main appeals of peace being about what they usually are ā 0 cost tech 1s are MASSIVE supports for early-mid hero or tech rush plans, and onimaru is an upper class combat hero to support it.
Past starter means able to put down Battle Suits, and the various durable tech 1 options.
Purple starter might be the strongest option for the deck and is probably my first fallback choice with Black starter as my second strongest idle thought.
With purple starter, both peace and anarchy should be solid for much the same reasons PPA uses purple starter.
Iād probably prefer trying some more options under Black Starter before I transition to āPPA the gimmick versionā
Drakk/Jaina both under consideration if I want to use Red Starter (unlikely), but I think that [necromancy] with early heroās hall maybe the route I want to pursue.
The other problem is that it costs 8 gold to max Prynn, and most common Tech 2 units only cost 3, so you are falling behind on gold (not to mention the free levels youāre giving away, or the cost of a self-inflicted origin story).
Yup ā further emphasizes the potential importance of nullcraft, mox, or skeletal archery as ways of getting units that can stick around for continuous value, or an early//continuous value maxband hero.
For example getting a Drakk running would probably mean a free charge every turn, and that might be enough ā and a very different tech 2 plan than otherwise available.
Getting Jaina running is almost like having a flying/long range unit of 3 power on the board ā lack of HP growth might make her a non-starter though.
Midori is also in my backburner of considerations ā flying attack at maxband, tiny basilisks, possible 2/2 skeleton dorks. [Green] probably wonāt work out.
Seems very unlikely that a [blue] setup would work well, although reputable newsman and building inspector and [Law] may have some strange place.
[Past] / Necro / Peace
[Past] / Necro / Anarchy
[Past] / Necro / Law
[Past/Future] / Necro ā Tech 1 Stewardess x1-Knights x2-Seers x2 (second stewardess techād in to line up with Garth maxband possibly). Knights are slow, but cheap like over eagers are.
[Necro] / Past / Blood
[Necro] / Past / Fire
[Necro] / Past / Law
[Necro] / Past / Peace
[Necro] / Past / Balance
[Law] / Necro / Past
[Balance] / Necro / Past
Well letās start with one of the stupider options, see if we canāt rule it out early.
[Necro] / Past / Blood
You go first
I think to mitigate the econ disadvantage that Eric brings up, you really have to make sure you get the most out of the Nether Drain and Prynn herself. (Though I can tell youāve been trying to mitigate the cost with Resurrectors in some of your other games.)
Ideally, you want Garth at Lv. 5 before you try (and almost certainly a Heroesā Hall, so you can attempt before Tech II if necessary). That way when you Netherdrain, youāre shifting the levels from Prynn back into a maxband Garth to pull something from your discard pile.
If Prynn was in play first, say at Lv. 5 herself, then itās 2 to max her, 6 to bring Garth in at Lv. 5, and 1 for ND ($9 total). If Garthās in play at Lv. 5, itās 8 to bring in max Prynn, 1 to ND, so same cost. I like that it only hinges on 1 card, though itās expensive in total.
If you immediately remove all 4 runes to trash two units, Prynn just dies from fading and the units come back, right? So adding a Seer or Time Spiral (another moving part, and another gold) could put her fade at 5 and let you take out 2 units before the ND? If you only take out 1 unit, then you might want to use Seer or TS to accelerate her fade after the Netherdrain. The ideal would be to make them lose a draw step along with the units, right? Or make them spend gold/units taking out Prynn instead of going after your buildings or Garth.
The real value will vary wildly depending on what you hit with it. Trashing 1 Rambasa Twin will drastically weaken the other one, permanently. Trashing a Tech III unit could eliminate the opponentās win condition. Trashing an Overeager Cadet or two (or Drill Sergeant) could put a big damper on Peaceās engine. But a random Tech 0 or Tech I in another deck wonāt be worth it. The trick would be to use it on the opponentās core pieces; if they have access to a strong non-unit strategy (Vandy) then itās probably not going to be worth attempting.
Having a backstory [Past] of coming back to life half-dead [Necro], wth the ability to permanently trash thingsā¦ I think weāve found where Sirlin put Menelker in Codex.
While I agree the ādreamā type setup is maxing garth the turn you are trashing something I suspect it is too expensive to be realistic when trashing a tech 1 is really worth it, unless you can contrive to kill an opposing hero on the cheap ā
4 gold setup on tech 1+heroās hall
6 gold for a level 5 hero
9 gold the turn of for a hero, 6 levels, and netherdrain ā 8 gold if youāve lined up two netherdrains.
18-19 total cost.
On the OTHER hand, it is a lot cheaper if you manage to line up some sort of hero kill, but you probably win if you A: got a hero kill, B: Trash an enemy unit, and C: Fetch a tech 1 or tech 2 unit from maxband Garth. (Even A+C could win you the game, adding in Prynn trashing something is mostly insult to injury but adds in some very solid late game threat effects).
If Garth or Prynn had a cheaper midband, it would be far more reasonable to drop them defensive/offensively and try using them as part of the route to securing a crucial hero kill, but sadly they cost 5 for midband, which is a lot for a 2/4 blocker/maybe 3 attack offensive body.
P1T4 or P2T3 has 18 gold and 15 gold respectively. Between 4 gold tech 1 and heroās hall, 4 gold for level 1 heroes, 1 gold for nether drain and ~6 gold for levels leaves basically nothing for actually having a board. Not skipping any workers to make it happen but this is the cheap version where you arenāt maxbanding garth at the same time for a tech 1 unit.
Add in another turn for setup and you should have gold for maxband garth in there somewhere, a reasonable chance of an additional netherdrain usage, etc to cheapen things up and actually do something on the board before then.
Realistically it is a T4-T6 plan if at all, which opens up a lot more leeway in terms of what you tech earlier and how you play, and your ability to react to stuff, and tech 2 [necromancy] -> blackhand resurrectors are REALLY tempting, as Iām fairly sure you WILL win if you manage to untap with it and can netherdrain ā the whole list of effects reads like a tech 3.
AND we havenāt addressed how AWFUL rushing this is against hero aggression as you probably arenāt getting a discount on leveling by killing a hero if youāre spending all your gold on hoping to trash a unit.
Well, hereās a Turn 1 if you want to try out some other combo:
[details=P1, Turn 1]Pestering Haunt
Graveyard
Sacrifice the Weak
Jandra -> Worker
Skeletal Archery[/details]
4 gold (4)
Worker (3)
Vandy (1)
Pestering Haunt (0)
Discard 3, Draw 5. Float 1 gold.
SQL - Vandy (2/3 +1)
Pestering Haunt (1/1)
Base - 20
5 workers, 1 gold
Hand: 5
Deck: 0
Discard: 3
Past/Necro/Blood here we go
P2T1
STARTING HAND
Forgotten Fighter
Tinkerer
Plasmodium
Hardened Mox
Neo Plexus
WORKERS
Plasmodium
Fading Argonaut
Temporal Research
Time Spiral
Nullcraft
Battle Suits
Neo Plexus
Tinkerer
Forgotten Fighter
Tech 0 card(s)
Get Paid - ($5)
Worker - ($4)
Hardened Mox - ($1)
Float ($1)
Discard 3, draw 5
[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]
[I]Squad Leader[/I]: [I]Elite[/I]: Hardened Mox (2/1) [I]Scavenger[/I]: [I]Technician[/I]: [I]Lookout[/I]:[B]Buildings:[/B]
Base HP: 20[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]
Worker Imp, Tech as normal
5 gold (6)
Worker (5)
Tech I (3)
Poisonblade Rogue (1)
Javelineer (0)
Haunt hits the base for 1
Discrad 2, rs, Draw 4
SQL - L1 Vandy (2/3 +1)
Scavenger - Javelineer (1/1)
Tech - Poisonblade (2/1)
Pestering Haunt (1/1)
Base - 20
Tech I - 5
6 workers, 0 gold
Hand: 4
Deck: 3
Discard: 0
[details=Next hand]Summon Skeletons
Deteriorate
Skeletal Archery
Twilight Baron
[/details]