Well, I’m ostensibly at work so I wasn’t quite willing to do that, haha! Thanks though, that’s interesting that the few times it did get used that player was able to win the game.
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That wasn’t an exhaustive search, more a proof of concept (I too, should be working).
if you click on the reply symbol on penatronic’s post, you’ll see they were talking about porko’s tap to disable ability
(joining the people who should be working but instead are milling about on a forum :))
While Penatronic was talking about porkhand, my two cents on forgotten fighter:
half the card’s effect isn’t about when it’s played but when it makes an opponent act differently because it could be played
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I think I’ve seen Porkhand used when the opponent relies on a single card to do all the work, usually some sort of solo hero rush (e.g. maxband Midori rushing the base with Moment’s Peace spam). If I remember correctly, it was rare that the game was close enough by then for it to matter.
So it has only been played against me specifically losing to it. Got it, nevermind, doesn’t need buffs XD
No honestly I wasn’t suggesting all of the buffs I suggested to FF, just thought it was an interesting thought experiment. I do think 1 cost and target non patrollers is warranted though
I think porky shouldn’t pay 1 for his ability, otherwise is fine.
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@Penatronic I found one case (by searching for “Porky disables”). Exactly the circumstances that @charnel_mouse described.
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So, it’s true that Porkhand Magistrate doesn’t get played, but Arrest does. And Arrest is arguably on par with Porkhand Magistrate’s ability, maybe even weaker:
Porkhand Magistrate vs Arrest:
- Requirements: Porkhand recovers from Arrival Fatigue vs. a (preferably blue) Hero is in play
- Cost: 1 gold + exhaust Porkhand vs 2 (or 3) gold
- Target gets a card vs spending a card.
- Bonus opportunity to target your own units to draw a card.
Seems to me like the maths of Porkhand Magistrate’s ability vs Arrest is pretty even. The real issue is that 3 cost for a 2/3 is a bit expensive early, and the blue meta right now is mostly about card explosions with Reteller of Truths or Flagstone Garrison, so it doesn’t fit in very well later game either.
I think Porkhand Magistrate is off-meta more that out of balance.
Also: making a second source of Arrest cheaper would be even more oppressive against purple.
The main things Porkhand Magistrate has over Arrest is that it can target heroes and Tech III units, and that you can consistently disable something every turn, but Blue starter makes it difficult to have the tempo to capitalise on the latter.
From what I’ve seen of Porkhand being used, I think you’re also underestimating how painful it can be to give your opponent an extra card, especially on multiple turns. Unless you’re disabling something their entire deck relies on, you’re roughly paying to give them a free Surplus add-on.
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it’s an ability that is really bad early game, and there’s no way it’s not going to be a worker before there’s a good target for it. I guess the real question is how do you make it remotely useful going second vs black or white starter, and I can’t think of a good change. Any change to cost or stats feels like too much. maybe make it a 2/4? even that seems pretty decent for 3 gold.
Word. I havn’t played that many games against purple starter yet, but FF kept giving me hedaches as a well timed FF, especially in combination with battle suits and/or nullcraft, very well is capable of giving you that very relevant early hero kill. If the opponent factors that in he usually plays in such a way that FF is not necessary to play, but the threat in hand really is relevant and leads to the opponent playing more defensively. Therewith purple gets what it wants simply by the card being within the starting 10: more time in the early game. I wouldn’t mind it being able to pop a backline Aven though.
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Yeah it’s a card that can often remove two health from the board, for two gold. That’s not as bad as people are making out. The real issue is having to play a hero, rather than the spell itself.
Yeah, I get that giving the opponent an extra card is aversive. Compared to playing Arrest, both players get an additional card. If it can give you a tech break or delay something like Molting Firebird from wrecking your day then that situation would be worth it, or if you’re lower on cards yourself. Hey, maybe lack of respect for Porkhand Magistrate when you’re low on cards is part of why blue is struggling against black with the imps!
Or alternatively, if you have a reputable newsman, building inspector, or gemscout owl in play, you can give yourself a free surplus add-on.
@Penatronic I mean, snapback is an ability that’s really bad early game, and it’s a strong card. I’m not saying that Porkhand Magistrate is as strong as snapback, but that it’s situational like that.
I’m really not saying that Porkhand Magistrate is super strong, but unless we’re arguing that Arrest is too weak then it’s not clear how the Magistrate’s ability is inbalanced with Arrest if we do the math. It’s not being played has more to do with the current meta than the strength of the card.
Sure, so with what you’ve said they r pretty even. Now add:
- Porkhand requires giving your opponent a turn’s notice: as well as the obvious benefit of the disable happening earlier in the game, arrest acts as a deterrent without being played (many a scavenger gold has been lost needlessly because they put it in lookout for arrest).
- Your maths (points 2-4 anyway) assumes infinite porkhand taps (comparing costs/ability only based off those on the turn of the ability). This captured the whole cost of Arrest, but not the 3g for a 2/3 body you only get to use on turns you don’t use the ability of porkhand.
While i don’t know the distribution of how many exhausts a porkhand gets before it is killed, I’d argue it isn’t going to be much above 1 because of the chance of it dying before it does any (you have just spent 3g for 2/3). Then you’ve spent 4g and a card for the ability and an exhausted magistrate, compared to 4g and a card for arrest’s ability and a hero; hero > exhausted magistrate.
If you think my estimate of 1 exhaust is too low, remember that you only valued any particular exhaust as ‘pretty even’ to Arrest, so we are tending towards them being even, not gaining ground over Arrest the longer we estimate porkhand stays around.
While other arguments based on its lack of early game impact or the value of using it as an (expensive as hell) ‘surplus’ are, I agree, hard to quantify, I don’t agree that it is balanced with arrest if we do the math.
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What about dropping its gold cost. Two and reducing its stats to 2/2? Makes it a little bit more useful without the text without being particularly powerful in any way.
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2 for a 2/2 with ability is significantly above par for a tech 0.
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2 1/2 would mimic tinkerer, could see that working
Since we’re talking about a balance patch and not a wider attempt to shake up the meta, and since these kinds of threads tend to expand as they go on, I suggest we put a hard limit on the discussion. Let’s say we limit ourselves to changing a total of 10 cards, which changes would be top priority?
There seems to be consensus about Vandy, Garth, Deteriorate, Dark Pact, Pirate Gunship, and MoLaC all needing nerfs (though personally I think the currently tested nerf to MoLaC is going overboard).
There also seems to be agreement that Troq deserves a buff (if we are willing to overlook the careful balance of Finesse v Bashing), as does something in Law. Can we reach an agreement about 3 more cards that need to be changed, for balance’s sake?
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I don’t see why I would assume infinite porkhand taps. You don’t have Arrest in your hand every turn either.
It’s the only non-illusion unit in the blue starter that has more than 1 attack. It’s the meat shield of the starter, an expensive fading argonaut. Making it 1/2 would give it a completely different role. Maybe giving it readiness would be worth considering, I’m not sure if that would be strong or not.
I think it’s more clear that buffing Porkhand Magistrate by lowering his costs would further imbalance the blue-purple matchup then actually improve the overall balance.
Word. 10chars
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I think the only problem with the “10 card changes” is 5 of them that most people seem to agree with are just for nightmare. That being said, I would propose the below minimized list, “low priority” being a list to consider later.
EDITED BASED ON CONTINUED DISCUSSION:
| Nerfs | |
|---|---|
| Vandy | Remove resist 1 at midband |
| Garth | Reduce midband stats to 2/3 |
| MoLaC | If you have no units in play, remove all runes from this |
| Lich’s Bargain | Base dame increased from 4 to 6 |
| Pirate Gunship | Remove obliterate 2, increase cost to 7 |
| Deteriorate | Increase cost to 1 |
| Dark Pact | Increase cost to 1 |
| Drill Sergeant | Change text to whenever you play a unit from yoru hand, put a +1/+1 counter on it |
| Flagstone Garrison | Cost increased from 3 to 4 |
| Bird’s Nest | Sacrifice birds when birds nest leaves play |
| Buffs | |
|---|---|
| Torq | Reduce midband to 4-6, reduce maxband to 7 |
| The Boot | Add text “or destroy an upgrade or ongoing spell” |
| Low Priority Changes | |
|---|---|
| Jaina | Reduce maxband to level 6 |
| Origin Story | Can target patrollers |
| Porkhand Magistrate | Remove gold cost from ability |
| Masked Raccoon | Increase stats to 4/4 |
| Debilitator Alpha | Ability reads all attacking units get -1 atk |
| Arresting Constable | Cost reduced from 4 to 3 |
| Rickety Mine | Add haste |
| Crashbarrow | Reduce attack to 5 |