I agree that it would be simpler just to tone down the bonus amount. +3/+3 is already really good. even +2/+2 breaks all the combat math if youre making tokens or anything like that.
I think losing the resist 1 is barely a nerf at all, I would rather see Vandy’s midband go up to 4-5 and max at 6.
See above.
I can read, I also disagree
Do you agree to the minimum of resist 1 removal?
I am open to more nerfs in future once agreed upon. Let’s start small and work our way up.
It’s interesting that when discussing balance changes, people rarely suggest nerfing Blood. Why is that? Because it’s strong in a less frustrating way?
If the idea is small nerfs, why is gunship obliterate removed completely? seems like it should be obliterate 1.
It shouldn’t have Obliterate at all, trust me on this one.
I agree. Gunship is just way too overpowered. Even for 10 gold with the printed stats it probably would be an allstar as it usually singlehandedly wins it’s games
@ the Vandy nerf, I don’t think removing resist 1 is enough, and I think for the sake of simplicity it would make more sense to do a single large nerf as opposed to a host of small nerfs.
I agree that removing Obliterate entirely was good and it could even go up in cost. If you wanted to keep obliterate you’d need to reduce it’s stats or remove long range. As it is now it out performs every other t3 unit by a landslide.
@zhavier I had originally proposed reducing crashbarrow attack, but nobody seemed too interested. I do think if you nerf garrison, molac, nightmare and gunship the crashbarrow may end up being one of the best win cons left that remains untouched, but maybe its better to settle on the first 5 things before moving on.
Crashbarrows are strong units, but not at the same power level of the other cards/synergies being mentioned. Even in a codex dedicated to getting the most crashbarrows possible ([Necro]/Blood/Truth), its still below mono black in power level (and even further below Nightmare). Its also a core part of blood, and nerfing it would power down mono red is a way which is not needed atm in my opinion
So far testing the changes to The Boot with Penatronic, neither of us feel like it’s too insanely big of a buff. Troq desperately needs buffs to be tournament viable
I’ll bump the “consensus” nerfs Pena proposed along w/ the Bashing and Law Buffs I think are most warranted.
| Nerfs | |
|---|---|
| Vandy | Remove resist 1 at midband |
| Garth | Reduce midband stats to 2/3 |
| MoLaC | If you have no units in play, remove all runes from this |
| Lich’s Bargain | Base dame increased from 4 to 6 |
| Pirate Gunship | Remove obliterate 2, increase cost to 7 |
| Deteriorate | Increase cost to 1 |
| Dark Pact | Increase cost to 1 |
| Drill Sergeant | Change text to whenever you play a unit from yoru hand, put a +1/+1 counter on it |
| Flagstone Garrison | Cost increased from 3 to 4 |
| Bird’s Nest | Sacrifice birds when birds nest leaves play |
| Buffs | |
|---|---|
| Troq | Swap midband and maxband |
| Mid at 4 and max at 7 | |
| Let maxband target any building | |
| The Boot | Cost moves to 4 |
| new text: Select one of the following: | |
| - Destroy a Tech 0 AND a Tech 1 unit | |
| - Move an enemy hero to level 1 | |
| - Destroy an Upgrade or Ongoing Spell | |
| Arresting Constable | Ability changes to: Arrives or Attacks → Disable an enemy Unit or Hero |
| Guardian of the Gates | Ability changes to: Whenever Guardian of the Gates is attacked, disable the attacker |
I think those changes are too many.
The two peace nerfs feel like they are a bit over the top and especially the two law changes feel like a tremendous buff of which I’m not sure whether this should be intended. Somehow I don’t have similar feelings about Troq and the boot even though just like law this also is a spec I haven’t really played at all and therefore should not voice my opinion too loudly.
If the majority settles on these changes I will not object, I just wanted to write my thoughts.
All other proposed changes are good in my eyes. We might have to change the MoLaC nerf, but that’s probably something for which we need a bigger sample size.
I’m in favor of the changes to Black, Gunship and Troq.
I’m against all the other changes without further testing.
These changes are too numerous and sweeping to be standard yet. Start small.
I agree that there are too many in total. I would change one of arresting constable or guardian of the gates, or none at all, but definitely not both. I think the remove resist 1 is so irrelevant that it can just be scrapped, if Vandy needs a nerf after deteriorate and dark pact it should be something more substantial. If both drill sgt and flagstone garrison is too much, just do the garrison change and leave drill sgt.
I am firmly opposed to adopting any untested changes as Forum Standard™.
Does one game count as testing? XD
Okay, so seems like consensus can agree on ditching peace and law changes and leaving the rest?
I think you still keep the garrison going up 1 gold.
Garrison is good, but it has not been proven to be more busted than many other things in this game.
I would sooner increase the cost of molac than garrison, and even changes to that are contentious.
A nerf to peace requires more testing.
So no nerf to miracle growth at all?