Continued: Who did the translations anyway?
[quote=“GRAG”]Midori:
We’ll sort of gloss over the fact that his name is just Japanese for “green.” The Japanese translation does render it as a word of foreign origin, implying that it’s just coincidence that it happens to also be a word in Japanese, akin to how if you see the word “sake” italicized, you think of the alcoholic beverage instead of the word meaning “on behalf of or for the benefit of.” Neat trick.
Innate: Aspect of the Dragon —> 龍の相 is literally just “aspect/countenance/appearance of dragon.” Granted, “aspect of the dragon” always sounded a little weird to me and I’m a native English speaker, so hey.
Defense Mastery —> 大防御 (“Great [in the sense of “large”] defense”) isn’t too bad, and it at least uses the same word “defense” that “block” was translated as (instead of ガード, how “block” should be translated for consistency with JFGC terminology). I’m sure a bit more effort could result in something great instead of something that works, but eh.
2: Dragon Form —> 龍変化 (“Dragon change”) is a little off in my opinion, as it’s presumably his entire body changing into a dragon, so perhaps 龍変身 (“dragon transformation”) would be better?
10: Glimpse of the Dragon —> 刹那の龍影 (“Momentary dragon shadow”). 龍影 seems to be an established phrase (to the point where you’ll find a ramen shop named that if you google the phrase), and it’s also part of the name of an old building in Nagoya (龍影閣/Ryueikaku), so I have no real qualms with this translation. It’s nicely non-literal while still being faithful!
J: Whirlwind —> See above
JD: Toxic Breath —> 龍毒吐 (“Dragon poison exhale”) is pretty much as-is.
Q: Rising Mountain —> 昇山拳 (“Rising mountain fist/punch”) takes “shoryuken” and substitutes in “mountain.” Not bad!
QD: Dragon Mountain —> 龍山拳 (“Dragon mountain fist/punch”) works much the same way.
K: Rushing River —> 渡河襲取 (“Cross-a-wide-river take-by-surprise”) seems to be, as far as I can tell, a reference to classical Chinese literature. Huh!
KD: Talon Swoop —> 龍爪天襲 (“Dragon claw assault-from-the-heavens”) has a similar name structure that also sounds like it could be a reference to Chinese literature, but almost certainly isn’t.
A: Wrath of Earth —> 大地憤怒撃 (“Earth/ground wrath/rage strike”) is pretty much as-is.
AD: Final Dragon Buster —> 極・龍王撃砕 (“Ultimate/mastered/extreme • dragon king pulverize/devastate”) is another interesting case. If you didn’t catch the obvious reference in the English, it’s time to turn in your badge and joystick, but the more closely I look at Midori, the more clearly it seems that the translator was very definitely going for a Thing with his attack names.
So. A Thing.
In Japan, and indeed throughout much of Asia, the language of Classical Learning was/is Chinese, in much the same way that Greek and Latin hold a position of sounding learned and academic and, frankly, old throughout Europe. The use of four-character phrases for the names of the moves on the king and ace is actually a pretty interesting call, because of the implication. Basically, Chinese literature is full of four-character phrases that are fairly idiomatic in meaning (generally being abbreviated references to stories or quotes, and in some cases simply being deliberately constructed with the intention of explaining them to give them meaning), and for a character like Midori who’s supposed to be this sort of old-fashioned learnèd teacher mentor master sort of guy, it actually makes a lot of sense for his techniques to sound “old,” because unlike English, where affected “ye olde englishe” makes you come off sounding like some guy who owns a cloak and has a vanity plate on his car that says “RENFAIR,” sounding old-timey (like Oni’s or Gouki’s Japanese win quotes in SF4) draws on imagery of BUDDHIST HELLS and DEMON GODS WITH SWORDS that is actually fairly badass.
In other words, at first I felt like maybe Midori’s move names were kind of “off” in their translation (especially since “Final Dragon Buster” could be rendered phonetically as ファイナルドラゴンバスター and literally everyone with any familiarity with Street Fighter would completely get it), but the more I look at it the better a job I feel was done overall for his general flavor by giving him deliberately Chinese-sounding move names.[/quote]
[quote=“GRAG”]Let’s bang out another one of these before I get started for the day.
Setsuki
Innate: Speed of the Fox —> 狐の速力 is pretty much just… as-is.
7: Bag of Tricks —> 七つ道具袋 (“seven tools bag”) isn’t too bad. Obviously “bag of tricks” is a little too English-slangy to translate directly, which can’t be helped, but the 七つ道具 in the translated name refers to a ninja’s standard set of equipment (or, more broadly, any seven-piece set of standard equipment in any field). Truth be told, it may have actually been better without the “bag” at the end of it, given that the phrase “bag of tricks” is largely idiomatic anyway unless you’re, like, Felix the Cat.
10: Smoke Bomb —> 煙玉 (“smoke ball”) is pretty much just a literal translation. Nothing to see here.
J: Esper Dash —> 瞬き駆け (“Blink-of-an-eye run/dash”) isn’t too bad, especially because “esper” kind of isn’t a real word in English anyway?
Q: Ninpo Flash —> 忍術・閃光 (“Ninjutsu/Ninja Technique • flash of light”) is pretty spot-on. “Ninpo” (忍法) refers to the overall discipline of ninja-ing, including techniques and equipment, so the translation actually kind of fixed the name.
K: Starlight Kick —> 星光蹴 (“star light kick”) is… well, yeah.
K: Starlight Tumbler —> 星光砕 (“star light crush/break”) isn’t too bad either, though it does sound a lot less like a rolling throw as a result.
A: Surprise Gift —> 忍者の贈り物 (“Ninja’s present” or “gift from a ninja”) is pretty much as-is. Kind of a weird name to begin with, so whatever.
A: Shuriken Hail ('sup Ibuki) —> 苦無暴れ雨 (“Kunai [throwing knife] violent rain”) actually fixes the name again based on the illustration (“shuriken” refers more to the flat, generally-star-shaped projectiles, while “kunai” refers to the kind of knife you see in the picture. Which, incidentally, is missing the ring or hole on the end of the handle that you ordinarily see them depicted with in Japan)
A little bit of ninja trivia, incidentally: A few months ago, on a weekend with no plans, my wife and I drove to Koka, Shiga, which is famous for having been the home of the Koga school of ninjary. One of the more interesting things we learned was that, as befits a spy, actual IRL AFK ninjas would dress like… you know, normal, inconspicuous people. Traveling medicine salesmen especially (at least for Koga-school ninjas, because I guess they were all sorts of smitten with Toyama’s grasp on the market), but also stuff like monks or whatever else someone who would non-suspiciously travel around a lot would look like. You know what they pretty much didn’t ever dress like? Ninjas.
The modern stereotype of “what a ninja looks like” is apparently derived from the all-black outfits that stagehands (or kuroko/黒子) wear in Japan. In Kabuki plays, occasionally someone would be “killed” by a stagehand. This represented the character being killed by a ninja, in the sense of “out of nowhere,” but over time signifier and signified sort of switched places and people started thinking of the stagehand outfit as actually being a representation of the ninja in question, rather than as a stand-in for someone completely unnoticed by the other people around.[/quote]
[quote=“GRAG”]DeGrey? Sure! Why not!
Innate: Moral High Ground —> 徳の優位 (“Superiority of virtue”) isn’t too far off, though it does miss the “established saying” aspect of the original name. Still not too shabby though.
2 & 3: Spectral Pull & Spectral Push —> スペクトラルフロント & スペクトラルバック (“Spectral Front” and “Spectral Back”, expressed phonetically) are interesting. Perhaps the translator just didn’t really know what to do with these attacks’ names.
4: Troublesome Rhetoric —> 屁理屈 (“Hair-splitting”) is an interesting choice. I never fully understood the intended meaning of the original English myself (is it supposed to refer to something like rabble-rousing and saying Dangerous Ideas?), though it admittedly sounds prooty neat. The translation is an interesting approach to something as essentially untranslatable as the original, inasmuch as “quibbling” or “hair-splitting” seems like a pretty reasonable thing someone known for their argumentative nature would be into.
7: Point, Counterpoint —> 対位法 (“Counterpoint”)
J: Daggerfall Thrust —> ダガーフォールスラスト (“Daggerfall Thrust” expressed phonetically)
Q: Pilebunker —> パイルバンカー (“Pilebunker” expressed phonetically)
K: Spirit Justice —> スピリットジャスティス (“Spirit Justice” expressed phonetically)
Aa: Final Arbiter —> ファイナルアービター (“Final Arbiter” expressed etc.)
Ad: Ghost Riposte —> ゴーストリポスト ("Ghost blah blah blah
JQK all seem fine as as-is names, but the ace really seems like it could have been done better. “Final Arbiter” could have maybe been something like 最終裁断 (“Final” left as-is, with 裁断 being used for its double meaning of “to judge” and “to cut”), and the wordplay of “Ghost Riposte” is almost inevitably utterly lost. I’m not clever enough in a second language to come up with something clever, but the fencing term “riposte” is translated into Japanese as the native word 突き返し (refuse, return, or poke back) instead of being used as a loanword, so the use of “riposte” is almost certainly going to mean nothing in particular to Japanese speakers.
So it turns out I’m done with my work I had to get taken care of this week. Awesome!
Valerie’s next in line. It’s worth noting ahead of time that words related to writing and drawing in Japanese are a little blurry — “to write” (書く) and “to draw” (描く) are both pronounced identically in Japanese (suggesting that the verbal distinction was originally made in Chinese, but not in the indigenous Japanese vocabulary), and because Chinese-derived writing in Asia is brush-centric, a lot of words having to do with writing (or, presumably, drawing) contain the word “brush” being used either semi-literally or idiomatically. So.
Innate: Agile Hands —> 自由速筆 (“Free fast writer [literally ‘fast brush’]”) is interesting. Seems apt enough I guess.
7: Bold Strokes —> 太筆描き (“Drawing with bold strokes [literally ‘thick brush drawing’]”) isn’t bad either.
10: Burst of Speed —> 俊速 is an interesting case. It sounds like a play on 俊足 (pronounced the same way), which literally means “excellent feet” but means “swift-footed.” The translation here trades out “foot” for “fast”/“speed,” literally resulting in “excellent speed,” which is actually pretty clever.
J: Three Colors —> 三色乱筆 (“Three-colored scribbling/hasty writing [lit. ‘wild brush’]”) does that thing again where the illustration informs the translation, and it works pretty well here too.
Q: Crimson Passion —> 紅の力筆 (“Crimson power brush”) is… you know, whatever. Sometimes the source material is hard to work with.
K: Flying Rainbow Stroke —> 躍る虹色の一筆 (“Leaping rainbow-colored single stroke [lit. ‘single brush,’ can also refer to writing a short message]”) isn’t bad. It’s a little unwieldy, but there are worse sins.
A: Masterpiece —> 大傑作 (literally just “masterpiece”)
A: Chromatic Orb —> 色の宝玉 (“Colored jewel/gem”) is a little bit off, but then you also have to deal with how to translate the nuance involved in “chromatic” and its Romantic (Greek?) roots, and how it doesn’t mean the same thing as “color” by itself, and so on and so forth.
A: Unbounded Creativity —> 無限の創造性 (“Limitless/infinite creativity”) is basically as-is.[/quote]
[quote=“GRAG”]Addendum to the Setsuki trivia bit: some Yomi history trivia! The name “Sleb” came from a thread Way Back When (we’re talking, like, around the introduction of the Fantasy Strike characters, back when the decks were still SF2 characters), when I got all pointlessly indignant about how the name “Setsuki Hiruki” didn’t sound like an actual Japanese name (and, well, it still sounds close-but-no-cigar, but I’ve learned to just deal with the rationalization of “it takes place in a fictional world where there is no Japan anyway,” though the name Onimaru kind of undermines that. More on that later, presumably), giving the name “Sleb” as an example of a series of sounds that are conceivably English-ish but definitely not an actual name. Then the rest of the board basically unanimously decided that “Sleb” was to be the name of the poor getting-thrown dude.
What a pointlessly dumb story that turned out to be.[/quote]
[quote=“Sirlin”]The translations sound good overall. Good job on explaining them. Anything that isn’t using fighting game terms should be though. Like “block” and the “trap” part of lighting trap, etc. Some other notes:
Sleb is…not an official term, for the record. And Setsuki was said to be fine by native Japanese speakers, as I explained the last time you brought that up. Hiruki was an actual Japanese family I knew. But then these names aren’t actually Japanese anyway since there’s no Japan in the fictional world.
Crimson power brush is a bad translation of Crimson Passion. The word passion means love, like intense an intense feeling for one’s art as well as love for people, since love is key to Valerie’s character. Changing “passion” to “brush” is just not good.
Colored jewel/gem doesn’t really make sense for Chromatic Orb. An orb is like a ball of energy, and there’s no gem involved. For “colored”, it would also be ok to use some form multicolored, rainbow, or even iridescent maybe. Though “colored” is fine too, it’s the gem/jewel part that’s weird.
The art for the shurikens has always been wrong, unfortunately. The word is right, the art is wrong. Oh well.
Hair splitting as a translation is way off. To split hairs is to quibble over a tiny detail. Hardly an impressive thing for a master of rhetoric to be doing. Rhetoric is a form of persuasive speaking, and troublesome rhetoric is rhetoric that’s so powerful that you don’t know what to even say in response. I think a really really good argument and “splitting hairs” are actually opposite things.
Jaina’s Buring Desperation losing the “desperation” part is sad. Desperation is kind of the point of that ability. Fanatical enthusiasm is sort of close though.
Crossfire kick doesn’t refer to an actual cross. There should be no references anywhere to anything religious or anything to do with an actual cross anywhere in the game.
Anyway, it sounds like most of the translation is pretty great. And some things here and there that could be better, maybe DoctorFedora can submit to thelo.[/quote]
[quote=“GRAG”]Oh, I should definitely point out, the “cross” in the translation of “crossfire kick” has no more to do with religion than a plus sign does. It’s just the name of the + shape. I’ll continue to be needlessly salty over the “Hiruki” thing, especially fueled by the knowledge that I was incontrovertibly in the wrong about its feasibility as a name.
Depending on free time once I’m done working through these one by one, I suppose I could try to work with a native Japanese speaker (Kasumi?) to ensure good translations. Like I mentioned before, one of the golden rules of respectable translation agencies is that they’d never ask someone to translate into a non-native language.[/quote]
[quote=“Kasumi”]When SIN was responsible for the translation, I was the only one request.
"DeGrey and Geiger are Westerners, so use Katakana-English(expressed phonetically)."
Oh, why Valerie not use Katakana ?
Ah, probably because only those in which the term is not fit to Japanese.
And DeGrey and Geiger attacks are difficult to translate to Japanese.
But he has only one modification.
Geiger K “Flash Gear” is “サマーソルト ギア”. →"Somersault Gear".[/quote]
[quote=“GRAG”]サマーソルトギアはやっぱりガイルに沿って適切ですね！後で、他の翻訳の調整についてネイティブチェックや相談していいですか？
“Somersault Gear” makes sense since that’s what Guile’s Flash Kick is called in Japanese anyway.[/quote]