Continued: Who did the translations anyway?
GRAG helpfully translates…
[quote]Sorry, I can’t really read long passages of English text, and it’ll take a while, so I’ll write this in Japanese.
It’s good that Mr. Sirlin and Thelo would want to correct and revise SIN’s translation, right?
In any case, here are my thoughts.
First off, to a Japanese audience, characters like Geiger or DeGrey are obviously of European descent, so there isn’t necessarily a need for their move names to be translated into Japanese, and so they are just written phonetically.
(I’ve had conversations that go “What’s ‘arbiter’ mean?” “I dunno.” “No use in having unnecessary stuff.” “I can’t do anything about it,” so this applies now.)
For DeGrey’s 4, 屁理屈 [“hair-splitting/far-fetched argument”/Troublesome Rhetoric], even if you translate it as めんどくさい修辞 [“annoying/nuisance/pain-in-the-neck rhetoric”], I don’t have much familiarity with the word “rhetoric,” but if it’s a pain, that makes it feel like DeGrey-sensei is impolite. Hair-splitting would be fun for him, so I feel like it’s a good translation.
Incidentally, it’s standard to refer to him with the title “sensei” [a suffix used for teachers or other respected positions]. Due to his importance to the story, there are people who regard him as being the main character. All members of Fami[?] pay him respect.
Incidentally, regarding the discussion of 時計じかけの兵隊 [Clockwork Formation], much like how JOJO was aware of the subtitle for the movie A Clockwork Orange, I think SIN was likewise fairly familiar with it.
I don’t know if Mr. Sirlin was aware of steampunk when designing Geiger or BBB. I wasn’t aware that anyone thought of Geiger as an expression of steampunk. Maybe, because he’s a watchmaker, “clockpunk”? It’s important to keep clocks in mind.
As for “カラクリ” [suggested more recently as a translation for “clockwork”], that word refers to mechanical devices. This doesn’t necessarily include gears.
[A video showing カラクリ mechanical devices: ]
Before Geiger came in contact with the Vortoss, I think he happened to come in contact with Japan (but this is just my own headcanon).
While, yes, カラクリ兵 [the more recent translation] does sound natural, Geiger is a clockmaker, so I think that SIN’s translation along the lines of “A Clockwork Orange” was actually quite good.
I’m getting sleepy, so bye for now.[/quote]
Gave it a translation. I apologize if anything is off, but then I do still have a cold. Comments/explanations in brackets are mine.
Now that you put it that way, the more literal translation of “clockwork” is actually pretty good there, especially given that Geiger is a clockmaker.
DeGrey の屁理屈はまだずれそうな気がします。「Troublesome Rhetoric」の「Troublesome」は「めんどくさい」ではなく、「対処しにくい」「問題的な」「扇動する」でしょう。翻訳として「相手をピンチにさせる議論」かも。Geiger が時計職人のように、DeGrey 先生は「議論職人」ですね。（笑）失礼なわけではなく、無意味の礼儀は余計ぐらい真面目でしょう。
For DeGrey’s Troublesome Rhetoric, the “troublesome” isn’t the usual translation of “a pain in the neck,” but rather “difficult to deal with,” “problematic,” or “agitating.” Perhaps you could translate it as “an argument that puts the opponent in a bind.” Much like Geiger is a master clockmaker, you could say that DeGrey is a master argument-maker. He’s not “impolite” so much as “serious to the point where meaningless politeness is unnecessary.”
Of course, these are just my own thoughts, too. : )[/quote]
[quote=“Kasumi”]Wow! This is the great job!!! Very cool . Thank you.
Oh take care〜！お風邪を召されているのに、翻訳ありがとうございます！お大事に！
I didn’t know “Troublesome Rhetoric” . But, I understood !
It’s like “Low & Order” ! :mad: :mad:
Maybe we have to change this word. Hummm.
And @K-To said on his Twitter,
" 対位法 is a musical terminology. So change to “Dialogue (of Socrates)”=問答法(Mondo hou),
or “Dialectic (of Hegel)”=弁証法(Benshou hou).
全ファミ is Zen-fami . It’s my gaming circle.
Crimson Passion is “Love” ! Not Art. Okey! How about 深紅の情熱(Shink no Jyounetsu) ?
Very fun ! Hype![/quote]
[quote=“Japanman”]This has been very interesting to follow. Kudos to DoctorFedora for going through all of the characters. I’m waiting to hear what he says about Zane’s Shenanigans. I’m not a fan of わるふざけ (or however it’s rendered) and agree that a lot of the Japanese translations feel flat.
Apologies for my unfamiliarity with forum-formatting but I thought I’d point 2 things out:
- Kasumi wrote “SINさんの訳を、Mr.SirlinやTheloさんは修正・改訂したいということで良いんでしょうか？” She is under the impression that Sirlin and Thelo want to correct or amend SIN’s translation and is trying to confirm this. (Doctor Fedora translated as “It’s good that Mr. Sirlin and Thelo would want to correct and revise SIN’s translation, right?” but this is an error).
My understanding of this thread is that Dr. Fedora is questioning the accuracy/quality of the translations and suggesting changes. Sirlin’s reply indicates that he’s interested but not necessarily going to change them.
If Kasumi is looking for confirmation that there definitely will be changes, I think it should be pointed out that this is not the case, at least yet. Kasumi has probably done more to promote Yomi in Japan than anyone and has a tendency to take on a lot of volunteer work. I’d hate for her to mistakenly think that this was a new official project when at this point it seems like it’s just another forum thread.
- 全ファミ is the abbreviated name of the Tokyo-based quasi-biweekly board/retro game association that Kasumi has promoted on the forums in the past. It’s practically free to attend and I think anyone who’s passing through Tokyo should stop by. If you tweet Kasumi beforehand, maybe she’ll bring her Yomi set!
Oh, and for troublesome rhetoric, I wonder if there’s some way to throw 理屈っぽい into the term. I think that’s the nuance you’re looking for.[/quote]
[quote=“GRAG”]Well hey, I’m essentially well again, and I feel like putting off my work, so let’s take a look at BBB.
Innate: Long Range —> ロングレンジ (“Long range” expressed phonetically). Personally, I’d have gone with more of an actual translation, like 遠距離 or something.
You know what? They’re 100% all just expressed phonetically so let’s just skip to Menelker
Innate: Bleeding Wounds —> 血祭り (“Bloodbath/vicious beating,” lit. “blood festival”) is interestingly different from the original English, but it works well enough to express the viciousness of the character, in my opinion.
7: Bonecracker —> 骨砕き (“bone smasher”) likewise gets an upgrade to its brutality
10: Into Oblivion —> 忘却の彼方 (essentially “oblivion”) is pretty much as-is
J: Chaos Orb —> 無道弾 (“unreasonable/unjust bullet/projectile”)
J: Nether Orb —> 奈落弾 (“Hell/abyss bullet/projectile”)
Q: Rising Dragon —> 龍昇拳 (“dragon-rise-fist”) is, I believe, the same translation used for Grave et al. It has the neat '90s-era SF2-ripoff bonus of using the same kanji as “Shoryuken,” just with the “rising” and “dragon” swapped.
K: Sweeping Claws —> 払旋爪 (“sweep-spin-claw”) works well enough, and the middle kanji is the “sen” in “tatsumaki senpukyaku” as a neat bonus
Aa: Dragon Breath —> 龍の息吹 (“Dragon’s breath”)
At: Deathstrike Dragon —> 死撃の龍 (“Death-blow dragon”) works pretty well as a straightforward translation, though I think it would be kind of neat if it were a rewritten name that played a little more on the Japanese name for the Raging Demon (瞬獄殺/“moment-judgment-kill”), except that I don’t have the sort of creativity to do that idea any justice myself. OH WELL[/quote]
Innate: Dominance —> 支配 (rule/control/dominance). Dunno if it still maintains the BDSM nuance (given that I’m not adequately into BDSM to know the Japanese terminology for it)
9: Do As Told —> 勅のままに ("[to/in the way] as decreed [imperially]") definitely gives at least an impression of importance in the phrasing. 勅 refers specifically to an imperial decree, basically.
10: Bare Your Soul —> 魂を曝せ (“expose [your] soul” [as a direct imperative]) is pretty much as-is
J: Power Lash —> 背骨折りの鞭 (“Spine-breaking whip/rod”)
J: Rapid Lashes —> 百叩きの鞭 (“100-strike whip/rod”)
Q: Rising Pleasure —> 昇りつめる喜び (“Reaching-the-summit happiness/pleasure”)
K: Wild Ride —> 荒々しい騎乗 (“Rough straddling/riding [on horseback]”)
A: Mistress’s Command —> 女王の命令 (“Queen’s order/command”)
A: On Your Knees —> 跪拝せよ is a little hard to translate, but it pretty much idiomatically translates to “bow before me” or “kneel before me.” The actual command to 跪拝 refers to an action more along the lines of kowtowing, with the knees on the ground and the body sort of bent forward with the elbows and forearms on the ground as well.[/quote]
Innate: Healing Touch —> 癒しの手 (“hand that heals/comforts/soothes”). 癒し is kind of hard to translate in a single word.
10: Healing Sphere —> 癒しの珠 (“healing/comforting/soothing orb/ball/pearl”)
J: Ray of Moonlight —> 貫く月光 (“piercing moonlight”), in the sense of a beam/ray of light piercing through the darkness or something
J: Moonlight Sphere —> 月光珠 (“moonlight orb/ball/pearl”)
Qt: Sunbar Cage —> 陽光の檻 (“sunlight pen/jail/corral”). So uh I have no idea what “sunbar” is supposed to mean so
Qa: Sunburst —> 弾ける陽光 (“bursting-open/splitting-open sunlight”)
K: Fountain of Light —> 光の泉 (“fountain of light”)
A: Sun and Moon —> 日月陰陽 (“sun-moon-shade-light”) is a little hard to actually translate back into English. It looks like a four-character Chinese phrase, which is kind of neat, and the first half (“sun-moon”) can refer either literally to the sun and moon or idiomatically to the passage of time, while the second half (“shade-light”) means either “light and shade” or "yin and yang."
A: Twilight Key —> 黄昏の鍵 (“key of twilight/dusk”)
A: Overdose —> 過剰治癒 (“excessive healing”) is kind of an odd one, given that “overdose” (in the medical sense) would be something like 過剰投与 or 過剰摂取. I guess it’s because she isn’t actually using medicine, though.
Time to go start prepping dinner. I’ll do the other three… eventually. Zane in particular has a couple of translations what needs fixin’ in order to properly match Japanese fighting game terminology.[/quote]
[quote=“GRAG”]looks like I’m still waiting on today’s work to arrive (i.e. I’m not getting paid for this morning anyway) so hey, Gwen time
also it is FREEZING in here so it’s Typo Time here in Kyoto
Innate: Shadow Plague —> 陰影疫 (“Gloom/shade epidemic/plague”)
Innate: Relentless Strikes —> 無慈悲の連撃 (“Merciless/ruthless repeated strikes”)
10: Gloria’s Remedy —> グロリアの処方 (“Gloria’s prescription”)
J: Chains of Ice —> 氷の枷 (“Shackles/handcuffs of ice”)
J: Links of Ice —> 氷の鎖 (“Chain(s) of ice”). Interesting to note that these translations are, in a sense, reversed (though the distinction makes a lot of sense, given gameplay implications). Japanese also lacks any specific word to refer to the links of a chain (instead just calling them, essentially, “rings” or “loops”) so it makes more sense to just use the word “chain” to refer to the one that doesn’t effectively “imprison.”
Q: Shadow Slice —> 影刻み (“Shadow chop/mince/shred”). Interesting to note that Gwen’s specials aren’t just expressed phonetically despite being ripe for doing so overall.
K: Burnbarrow —> 火炎車 (“Car/cart of [powerful/consuming] flames”)
At: Dreadlands Portal —> ドレッドランドへの扉 (“Door/gate to the Dreadlands”) is a fairly pedestrian phrasing, akin to “take this exit to get to the museum”
Aa: Dashgorger —> 駆け喰らい (“Running-devourer”).[/quote]
[quote=“GRAG”]Just two more to go until I can set fantasystrike.com/game back to English mode
Vendetta (“Balrog” in Japan)
Innate: Carrion Reach —> 腐敗の長腕 (“Long reach of rot/corruption”)
2: Pincer Poke —> 鋏突き ("Scissors/clipper/pincer poke/prick). 鋏 covers basically any sort of cutting tool that works by closing from both sides. 突く (the verb part) covers all sorts of actions from pricking a finger on a needle to stabbing a spear into someone’s chest. Also worth noting that the English fighting game terminology is lost in the translation (partially because the Japanese equivalent of a poke, 牽制, means something more along the lines of a check or a restraint, and is actually the word used to refer to pick-off plays in baseball).
3: Pincer Stab —> 鋏刺し (“Scissors/clipper/pincer stab”). The distinction between the two words is kind of lost in Japanese, as they seem to be largely synonyms.
4: Kidney Shot —> 臓腑打ち (“Blow to the bowels/entrails”). This may (I am merely speculating) be because Japanese may lack an equivalent phrase to the English “kidney shot,” which also implies a degree of fighting dirty.
7: Claw Trip —> 爪払い (“Claw sweep/trip”)
8: Acrobatics —> 軽業 (“Acrobatics”)
J: Tumbling Strike —> 回転突き (“Rolling/revolving stab/poke”).
Q: Frost Web —> 凍り網 (“Freezing net”). It’s worth noting that there’s no specific word in Japanese for a spider web (the word for “nest” is simply used), as well as that 網 is used to refer to pretty much anything with that sort of structure, from nets to grill grates.
Ka: Diving Pincer Slice —> 跳び込み一閃 (“Diving-in single flash”)
Kt: Wall Dive Suplex —> 壁跳び裏投げ (“Wall-jumping ura-nage”). Ura-nage refers to a type of throw in judo performed by rolling backward.
K: Wall Dive Loop —> 壁跳び嵌め (“Wall-jump trap”). Worth noting that it uses the Japanese word for e.g. a fireball trap (which Grave’s translation, as it exists, does not).
A: Surgical Strike —> 解剖の一撃 (“Autopsy/postmortem/dissection single-strike”) kind of misses the idiomatic meaning of the original English (i.e. “extreme precision”) and goes instead rather literal. Could probably be fixed. Also worth noting that “surgical strike” is kind of an American “set phrase” due to discussions of things like military tactics being in the news a lot, basically all the time? Anyway, something like ツボに一撃 (“single strike to a pressure point”) or something would probably be better overall as a translation.
A: Maximum Spider —> マキシマムヴェン (phonetically “Maximum Ven”)[/quote]
[quote=“GRAG”]Okay, let’s finish this up.
Innate: Shenanigans —> 悪ふざけ (“Prank/practical joke”). Should be 奇襲攻撃 (lit. “sneak/surprise attack”), which is the Japanese equivalent to the English fighting game term.
Innate: Meaty Attacks —> 転倒重ね (“Piling on when knocked down”). Could be 持続当て (lit. “connecting during duration”), but 重ね is also a valid term in Japanese for meaty attacks, so this seems… fine, I guess?
4: Creator and Destroyer —> 創作と破壊 (“Creation and Destruction”). I always wondered why Zane couldn’t play this on his own hand.
J: Anarch Crusher —> アナーキークラッシャー (phonetically “Anarchy Crusher”). Makes sense that the phoneticized name would be modified slightly, since “anarch” isn’t exactly an everyday word in English in the first place. I’m honestly a little surprised to find out it’s even a real word.
Q: Shoulder Ram —> ショルダーラム (phonetically “Shoulder Ram”)
The rest are all just the English names rendered phonetically.[/quote]