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Yomi Dojo - Much to Learn


#1

If you have any interesting yomi interactions, you can post them here. The reason I initiated this post is because I learned something today. I have played Zane for a couple of years, but today I learned something new.

I had two Aces in my hand and Perse used her 10 ability (Bare Your Soul) to pull three of my cards. Two of them were Aces. I attacked into a Gold Burst, so I had the opportunity to power up for an Ace and shuffle the other back into the deck. However, when I went to power up, I didn’t have the option to retrieve an Ace from the set of three cards that Perse had revealed.

I thought that was interesting and may not be commonly known. I sure didn’t know about this. It is better to learn these things before you are in a tournament match and do something like spending two cards to power up for nothing. I hope this is helpful for someone.


#2

That’s weird, normally you can do regular power ups to retrieve those Aces. But a Gold Burst failed? Maybe that’s just an actual bug…?


#3

It’s seems correct to me. GB allows you to search your deck or discard for up to two As, but you had two in your hand and two on table, so technically you had no aces left to search for.
Or maybe this is the bug…


#4

Afaik is not a bug but correct. At least, so i was told when explained the perse mechanics.


#5

Ohhhhh no I’m completely wrong. Even powering up they would not get them. All that powering up does is lets you reshuffle your deck, which “saves” the Aces from going to discard. But you need to have a 3rd Ace in the deck to do that in the first place.

It’s funny how I KNOW this, but I wouldn’t think about it really unless I was actually in the game. Strange.

Btw running an internal poll: if Zane knocks himself down with Crash Bomb, does Persephone trigger Dominance?

Whatever your answer to that one is, consider this; if Zane knocks himself down with Crash Bomb, does Quince trigger Positive Spin?

Thoughts?


#6

If someone were to ask me to rule on it, my intuition would be no, in both cases.

Both Persephone and Quince’s innate abilities specifically way “When you [ie: Persephone/Quince] do X, you get Y reward.” To me, this means that Perse or Quince has to be the one responsible for the KD or damage. Zane knocking himself down or dealing himself damage from his own ability on his own card does not qualify as Persephone/Quince having done those things. It would be different if Perse/Quince’s innates were phrased like: “When your opponent is knocked down” or “When your opponent takes damage”.

Also, if Quince were to get Positive Spin from Zane hurting himself with Crash Bomb, wouldn’t Quince also be entitled to Positive Spin when Jaina hurts herself with Unstable Power?


#7

Imo is “No” to both,cuz dmg and KD are the effect of CB, hence Zane just harms himself.


#8

B is clear-cut. Positive Spin says “at the end of the turn, if you dealt damage or block damage to your opponent”.
The damage from Crash Bomb is not dealt by Quince.

Strictly speaking I would guess the same for A since Dominance also says “When you knock down the opponent”. But I don’t know if that’s correctly implemented online.


#9

I would say “yes” to both of them, but for mostly balance reasons more than strict interpretation of the rules text. Even on strictly the rules, I would say you could justify it because by blocking Crash Bomb, Quince has taken an action which dealt damage to Zane, and Persephone has taken an action which knocked down Zane. But I admit that’s just me reading the rules the way I want them to be read (even if I think there’s enough wiggle room to justify that reading).


#10

In the game right now, Persephone DOES get the card, Quince DOES NOT get the Spin.

Maybe one or both are wrong, haha.

Also for balance reasons, they should both get benefits because Zane deserves nothing.


#11

Oooh, this is a tricky one! Balance aside, the wording on Crash Bomb is

This can’t be interrupted. (If it’s hit by a faster attack, the opponent can’t combo. This hits afterwards and wins combat.) If this is blocked, you take 5 damage and are knocked down.

I agree with @ArthurWynne that the Quince interaction is more clear-cut than Perse. An interesting comparison is with the cases where Quince plays e.g. J into K and does get to spin, and when Persephone plays AA or Power Lashes and does trigger Dominance.

Personally my reading is that blocking Crash Bomb doesn’t trigger either innate, but it’s not as obvious thanks to the wording of “you take 5 damage and are knocked down” instead of something like “Crash Bomb deals 5 damage to you and knocks you down”.


#12

I don’t understand how this is ambiguous.
Zane’s card Crash Bomb, which belongs to Zane and was played by Zane, deals damage to Zane and knocks Zane down. And this is Zane’s card.

Nowhere in there does it say Zane is knocked down by Persephone, or Quince deals damage to Zane. Crash Bomb says Zane takes damage, (so it’s being dealt by Crash Bomb), and Zane is knocked down (by Crash Bomb).

It’s pretty clear. Zane’s card owned by Zane deals Zane damage and knocks Zane down. No one else.


#13

What if I made Zane play Crash Bomb with Mistress’s Command?


#14

That’s actually an excellent point, but I would still say Perse shouldn’t get Dominance because the proximate cause of the KD is still Zane’s own card and ability. I would interpret the phrase “When you knock down the opponent…” to mean “When a card from Persephone’s deck is the immediate and proximate cause of the KD…” if that makes sense.


#15

Still feels bad for a character based around getting rewards for KD to not get rewards for KD. Especially when KD happens due to a deliberate read or clever play from the Persephone player. Right now it acts like “when the opponent is knocked down…”, and the only reason this is a problem is because of Zane.

Lets just delete Zane.


#16

I definitely agree in terms of feel and balance that Perse should get the card. Considering that the online client apparently already gives Perse the card, I feel like the best solution to this “problem” is to (theoretically) change the wording of her innate from “When you knock down the opponent” to “When your opponent is knocked down…”

I don’t ever play 2v2 Yomi, though, so I don’t know if that wording might be problematic if Perse were on a team with Troq. Would she get Dominance if she were on the bench and Troq played War Stomp in the Draw Phase?


#17

I imagine balancing 2v2 yomi without messing up 1v1 to be like

I have had wet dreams about grafting Zane’s meaties, Menelkers black face cards effect and 7*, Troq’s war stomp, and Arg’s hex of murkwood onto Persephone. There might be stronger chimaera options, but this is the one I need.


#18

The doctor’s report is in: I have advanced acute leukemia, caused by that post