[Tournament Format] Random decks, model's choice

#4 is the most interesting to me, but what do you do if there’s players you have insufficient data on?

Same thing, it’s just more likely the match turns out to be lopsided in retrospect. Without more data, that’s the best I can do. I could update the model between rounds to try and help with that.

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I favor option 3, then 2, then 4, then wayyy down 1.

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Since most of the variants are about increasing deck variety, I’ve added a rule that mirror matches are excluded.

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I think next tourney should be Option 3 here.

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If I’ve got time, I’ll put up some sample matchups for Option 3, to show what participants could expect.

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It has been awhile since we ran a random decks tourney, I’d be down for that

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Still open to better names. I should’ve called option 4 Final Balance Buster :smile:

Revisiting this, I think #2 sounds a lot better to me now. I just think it would be really fun to see underrepresented specs and also having to struggle with jank.

my ranking of preference is pretty even across 3 2 and 4, as before. Just voting against 1, really.

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Yeah I’m with @zhavier, slight preference for 3 and 2 over 4 but they’re very tight and a clear step above 1. We see plenty of tryhard decks, I want weird for XCASS events.

@charnel_mouse how would you feel about running XCAPS21 with one of those formats?

Comfortable, I think. I’ll see how easily I can generate deck pairings first, but if that’s straightforward I can plug pairings in once I’ve done the Swiss pairings. Will probably need help on running things in general, I’ve never done it.

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I’m happy to walk you through the spreadsheet Zhav made to help w/ matchup pairing/posting/tracking and how I use it

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Some example pairings for Option 3:

P1 P2
[Balance]/Blood/Finesse [Balance]/Law/Present
[Truth]/Disease/Present [Ninjitsu]/Anarchy/Future
[Blood]/Discipline/Past [Finesse]/Fire/Necromancy
[Peace]/Blood/Fire [Truth]/Demonology/Disease
[Finesse]/Blood/Necromancy [Fire]/Balance/Strength
[Disease]/Discipline/Fire [Necromancy]/Balance/Fire
[Blood]/Finesse/Law [Finesse]/Blood/Strength
[Blood]/Discipline/Past [Past]/Balance/Finesse
[Balance]/Blood/Ninjitsu [Blood]/Feral/Necromancy
[Future]/Peace/Truth [Balance]/Blood/Strength
[Law/Truth]/Present [Blood]/Law/Ninjitsu
[Fire]/Past/Truth [Necromancy]/Fire/Present
[Past]/Balance/Peace [Peace]/Feral/Finesse
[Growth]/Bashing/Disease [Feral]/Discipline/Truth
[Law]/Fire/Growth [Bashing]/Present/Strength
[Peace]/Demonology/Growth [Bashing]/Peace/Strength
[Law]/Demonology/Feral [Disease]/Bashing/Fire
[Bashing]/Blood/Future [Law]/Bashing/Necromancy
[Peace]/Future/Past [Fire]/Ninjitsu/Truth
[Bashing]/Demonology/Disease [Strength]/Disease/Growth

For Option 2, we can have separate deck sample lists for Player 1 and Player 2, since I already calculate Nash weights for them separately, as well as overall weights.

I still need to work out how to sample them, but here are the ones with smallest weight for each.

Player 1:

[Feral]/Future/Past
[Future]/Law/Truth
[Feral]/Law/Ninjitsu
[Balance/Feral]/Peace
[Future/Present]/Disease
[Future]/Fire/Truth
[Past]/Fire/Truth
[Future/Present]/Truth
[Peace]/Feral/Future
[Past]/Disease/Truth

Player 2:

[Law]/Ninjitsu/Present
[Discipline]/Law/Present
[Feral]/Finesse/Past
[Fire]/Discipline/Present
[Discipline]/Demonology/Present
[Discipline]/Growth/Present
[Discipline]/Necromancy/Past
[Discipline]/Future/Present
[Strength]/Bashing/Disease
[Peace]/Discipline/Fire

I’m all for creating some fair deck match-ups and interesting matches. Option 3 seems to have a distinct advantage for doing that because of the way your model considers the sides of the match-up in relation to each other (if I understood some of the data thread correctly); option 2 won’t do that [reference needed :)]
If people still wanted to specifically see decks in use that are normally too ‘bad’ to see much use, is it possible to have an option 2.1 where you pick one side of the match-up as above and then the other side to be a fair opponent?
Just seems a shame not to use the model to its full fair-match-making capacity in option 2

Hmm, maybe. I’ll draw up some expected opponents for the above Option 2 draws.

OK, here are some examples for dwarddd’s Option 2.1, following on from the examples I gave for Option 2.

Pick bad P1, then match fairly to P2:

P1 P2
[Feral]/Future/Past [Present]/Feral/Strength
[Future]/Law/Truth [Discipline]/Balance/Bashing
[Feral]/Law/Ninjitsu [Past/Present]/Balance
[Balance/Feral]/Peace PPA
[Future/Present]/Disease [Blood]/Disease/Present
[Future]/Fire/Truth [Strength]/Bashing/Necromancy
[Past]/Fire/Truth [Blood]/Bashing/Necromancy
[Future/Present]/Truth [Strength]/Necromancy/Past
[Peace]/Feral/Future [Finesse]/Anarchy/Disease
[Past]/Disease/Truth [Law]/Anarchy/Fire

Pick bad P2, then match fairly to P1:

P1 P2
[Present]/Feral/Fire [Law]/Ninjitsu/Present
[Peace]/Disease/Finesse [Discipline]/Law/Present
[Peace]/Demonology/Future [Feral]/Finesse/Past
[Balance/Growth]/Bashing [Fire]/Discipline/Present
[Feral]/Law/Truth [Discipline]/Demonology/Present
[Fire]/Necromancy/Strength [Discipline]/Growth/Present
[Past]/Growth/Peace [Discipline]/Necromancy/Past
[Truth]/Fire/Strength [Discipline]/Future/Present
[Anarchy]/Bashing/Necromancy [Strength]/Bashing/Disease
[Present]/Balance/Necromancy [Peace]/Discipline/Fire

The likes of PPA turning up as suggested opponents makes me a little uneasy here, although I haven’t given much thought to how that matchup would work out.

Thoughts on the given example lists?

Let’s just go with Option 3 IMO, and lmk if you need help creating the sign-up thread for XCAPS21

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Sounds good. Should we cross-post things on the voting thread first?