Valerie
(Reserved for later use)
(Reserved for later use)
Geiger is generally considered a top-tier character and a key member of the 20XX-meta triangle along with . He is also known for strongly oppressing a number of the cast with his excellent speeds, block beating projectiles and joker immune combos.
Notably Geiger has the most powerful ability in the game Temporal Distortion, which can checkmate opponents from high health totals if they are knocked down and/or don’t have the right tools in hand.
In order to improve his lop-sided matchup vs Rook and to give the entire cast more outs against checkmate situations, it has long been suggested that Temporal Distortion should end on any hit, including gold burst and (reworked) special blocks.
4* Temporal Distortion [Draw Phase]
Fetch a Jack or Queen from your discard pile. Ongoing. Your Time Spirals are zero combo point Linkers that do +1 damage each and are immune to Rewind Time Jokers. Discard this card when you get hit by an attack or throw.
The consensus is that Geiger requires a further nerf but there is still some disagreement on the best approach. The two most accepted suggestions are to nerf his TD damage by removing the +1 damage to Time Spirals or to nerf his Time Stop combos by making Time Stop throws become enders.
This latter change is the bigger nerf and specifically removes his ability to checkmate knocked down opponents from high HP with Time Spirals. This makes Quince and the Grapplers much happier.
4* Temporal Distortion [Draw Phase]
Fetch a Jack or Queen from your discard pile. Ongoing. Your Time Spirals are zero combo point Linkers that do +1 damage each and are immune to Rewind Time Jokers. Discard this card when you get hit by an attack or throw.
Time Stop
If the opponent takes block damage from a Time Spiral, they can’t activate innate abilities from blocking, and you may throw them. (Play a throw card from your hand. You cannot continue your combo. The opponent doesn’t draw a card from blocking if you throw them.)
Lum is actually considered a pretty decent character, but he suffers from horrible match-ups vs so doesn’t tend to see a lot of play at present. His changes are focussed on improving those match-ups.
This may also be a consequence of his kit being amongst the most complicated and also leaning on a lot of random chance elements.
Lum’s throws are designed to be purposefully inefficient, but he still struggles to kill where he has to rely primarily on throw damage to kill. Giving him +1 pump on his throws should help that.
There is a concern that this might make his late game burst damage too strong so until testing can prove otherwise, this change remains under consideration.
Normal Throw Damage
X+3 (+3 Any) —> X+3 (+4 Any)
10-throw Extra Juice
10+4 damage (+3 Any) —> 10+4 damage (+4 Any)
Additionally, because both of Lum’s most disadvantaged matchups are against characters who rely on recurring Aces, changing Jackpot to be more likely to find those Aces threatens them more than other characters. In exchange for a higher chance of success and a slightly higher maximum damage, it loses the guaranteed draw. This means he needs to wait until he’s confident that he’ll (ahem) hit the jackpot to use it. It is also more likely to deal more damage to Lum than the original Jackpot, which further increases the incentive to wait until the opponent has multiple known Aces and has played at least one Joker. Overall these changes seem quite balanced and flavorful (note he gets most payoff for finding “pocket” aces).
Importantly it also means has more of a decision to make when deciding which ability to counter.
7* Jackpot [Draw Phase]
Draw a card then The opponent reveals two cards from their hand at random. For each Ace, they take 5 damage and you draw a card. For each Joker, you take 2 damage.
Argagarg is generally placed with , in the upper tiers but not top-tier. He has strong matchups against a number of the cast, primarily due to the limitations of the other kits to deal with his extremely strong ace-block and counter.
His most glaring weakness is a weak match-up against Gloria, as she effectively neutralises all of his kit with her fast recurring pokes and healing abilities.
Bubble Shield is easily the strongest block in the game, and gives Argagarg a very safe advantage time which Rook specifically struggles to end. Slightly nerfing Bubble Shield to end on all hits brings it in line with Long Range and (reworked) Temporal Distortion. It also gives Rook additional outs through his special blocks.
In addition to a general nerf, Argagarg also needs to have some way to counteract . The most commonly suggested way for this to be implemented is to buff Bubble Shield to prevent healing effects.
A* Bubble Shield [During Combat]
If this blocks an attack or Joker, draw a card and this gets: Ongoing. Your Hex of Murkwood deals an extra 2 damage per turn and prevents the opponent gaining life. When you get hit by an attack or throw, take no damage, end combat and discard this.
Quince’s unique vortexing playstyle sees him retain strong character loyalists despite his very bad matchups against .
While he’s known to also have a tough match against , his matches against most other characters are rarely discussed in the context of balance changes, which may imply that they’re well balanced, or perhaps insufficiently explored.
There haven’t been many suggestions for Quince in the various V3 discussions, likely due to the cohesive nature of his kit. However the suggestions made this far are targeted at his worst matchups.
Quince’ slow speeds and reliance on dodges means he is particularly weak to being knocked down. This is extra bad for him if the opponent has mix-up normals that beat his AA, which is why are so tough. While doesn’t has such an option, he can threaten Fast Time Spiral when Quince is KD to beat everything except AA or Gold Burst. With TD active this can checkmate Quince for guaranteed lethal damage.
The suggestion to make his AA 1.0 speed was originally well received as it gives him a much needed answer to 1.0 speed mix-up normals. However @migohunter has expressed concern that 1.0 speed would allow it to trade with too many things, with each trade giving Quince a chance to use Positive Spin. There is a worry that this would warp his gameplay towards AA spam. It also doesn’t aid him against
AA Consent of the Governed
1.2 speed —> 1.0 speed
An alternative suggestion was to add a purely defensive option for KD turns, in the form of a special block on his 4. This has the added advantage that it provides a way to beat Time Spirals when KD by avoiding block damage. The idea was to preserve his mechanical flavour where he lacks a reversal. This block damage component is less controversial than giving Quince a tool that beats mix-up normals. So far there have been two formulations. The first beats all mix-up normals and ignores block damage but always gets discarded, never draws a card and costs a card to trigger. The second is speed gated to only beat very fast mix-up normals but is able to operate similarly to proposed V3 Special Blocks for
4* Filibuster [During Combat]
You may discard a card to make this block immune to mixup normals and block damage. This doesn’t return to hand or draw from blocking.
4* Filibuster [During Combat]
Discard this block to make it immune to block damage and beat mix-up normals faster than 3.0 speed.
Onimaru is generally regarded as a strong character and arguably goes even or better against every member of the 20XX triangle . Unfortunately, he has very bad matchups against and that hold him back a lot in competitive play.
Suggestions for Onimaru have focused on improving his throws, since his most challenging matchups have powerful dodges or blocks that are immune to his Guard Crush normal attacks. Changing Onimaru’s 6-attack to a named throw helps him deal with DeGrey’s Ace dodge and Arg’s Ace block. This also gives him another throw that beats Quince’s King, helping Onimaru in another challenging matchup. Note the name is currently just a placeholder.
6-attack —> 6-throw Spinal Toss
8.6 speed, 8+4+4 damage (+2 any), does not knockdown
BBB (affectionately designated Beelzebot by mains) has probably the most polarised match-up distribution in the cast. Long Range completely changes the option space of the game, notably making non-ranged throws illegal (oh dear grapplers) and his dodges completely safe unless he’s in a mirror match.
Agreeable changes to BBB have mostly been focussed around Junkshot, his long range-only Q as it’s a big part of what makes his kit so oppressive against the grapplers once he pushes them away.
Slowing Junkshot to 3.0 speed gives the grapplers a bunch more options to use against an otherwise very scary kit. This also lets us nerf without skewing his tense but generally considered even MU against the lord of hell (You can thank us later ). Tweaking range to trigger on block damage rather than his normals being blocked also buffs in neutral.
Long Range
Whenever your [range-giving] moves deal block damage or win combat, set combat to ranged next turn.
Q Junkshot
2.2 speed —> 3.0 speed
Troq is probably the best character in the game. It’s not that any one his options are overwhelmingly strong on their own (though Beast Unleashed is pretty goddamn powerful), its more that all of his options are good nearly all of the time.
The suggested changes focus on nerfing his J, which gives Troq a third face card that completely ruin’s Zane’s day, and his AA which is actually so good at 1.0 speed that it’s literally been dubbed Good Move.
Troq doesn’t really need his Troq Armor ability as the speed of fast J already undercuts nearly every normal attack in the game. Since (reworked) has a 3.0 speed Junkshot additionally slowing fast J to 2.4 speed seems completely reasonable.
Slowing AA to 1.2 speed and limiting War Stomp to once per turn are also both oft-mentioned changes to make his options just a little worse.
J Bull Rush
2.2 speed —> 2.4 speed
J* Troq Armor
Deleted
AA Eagle Totem
1.0 speed —> 1.2 speed
10* War Stomp [Draw Phase]
If neither player is knocked down, knock the opponent down, draw a card, and the opponent discards a card.
(Reserved for later use)
Persephone sees very little play in competitive Yomi outside of a few very skilled character loyalists. Her deck offers a control style that generally takes a while to get going, but once she has the opponent in her vortex she can threaten to set up a very scary hard lock where she is guaranteed to win.
Most suggested changes are focused on improving either her early game, general consistency, or her longevity so that she can more reliably reach her strong end game. This is a very difficult balance to strike without making her broken, so these changes will likely remain conservative.
Normally +1 damage to a certain class of card is not a significant enough change to really merit consideration, however needs to win a lot of combats, often with throws to manage to kill the opponent. It’s believed that this would likely reduce her need to win by approximately one combat per game, without tinkering with her delicately balanced kit. It also has the nice result of making her the only female character with 8 damage normal throws.
Normal Throw Damage
7 damage —> 8 damage
K-throw Wild Ride
9 damage —> 10 damage
Gloria is another character with a unique playstyle which draws dedicated character loyalists. She’s considered fairly challenging to pilot well, and her kit is considered very cohesive. This latter fact makes targeted balance changes challenging to implement.
Gloria has a very strong match-up vs , but with her weakness to burst damage, she suffers badly against . With some reasonable Zane nerfs planned, it’s actually the latter of these opponents that her changes have been aimed at.
Midori has a specific weakness to throw enders, so making Gloria’s Q throw into one gives her the ability to attack into dK or FDB and still end dragon form. dQ is also a severe problem for her, and the only agreeable solution seemed to be speeding up Sun and Moon to undercut it.
Q Moonbar Cage
Can’t Combo —> 3CP Ender
AAA Sun and Moon
0.6 speed —> 0.4 speed
(Reserved for later use)
(Reserved for later use)
If Zane isn’t the best character in the game, then he’s definitely the most meta-defining. He kerbstomps a huge number of the cast with explosive (if sometimes erratic) combo damage off of 1.0 speed attacks and dominant throws (outside grapplers/supers), a reversal that beats every other reversal, and probably the most hated super in Yomi.
Appropriately enough, Zane also seems to be nearly the divisive character when it comes to discussing balance changes. At present there are two main schools of thought, the first is that the only thing wrong with Zane is Maximum Anarchy (which should be removed and/or replaced with something less game warping), the second is that moderate nerfs to all parts of his gameplan are required, with Anarchy getting at minimum a speed nerf to 0.3.
The only change that has been met with long term consistent agreement is that Shenanigans should trigger before the opponent plays a facedown. As things stand, sometimes Zane getting bad nans is actually worse for his opponent.
The change listed here for Crash Bomb is an attempt to make it slightly less good by letting knockdowns beat it. This was suggested recently, but has received no negative feedback thus far. It helps who all currently struggle vs Zane, so it would seem to be a well targeted good suggestion.
Shenanigans
Immediately after you win combat, if you could play a combo card, reveal two cards from the top of your deck and use up to one of them in your combo. Discard the unused card(s).
K* Crash Bomb [During Combat]
This attack can’t be interrupted except by attacks that knock down. (If it’s hit by a faster non-knockdown attack, the opponent can’t combo. This hits afterwards and wins combat.)
If this is blocked, you take 5 damage and are knocked down.
Meaty Attacks
While the opponent is knocked down, your normal attacks are speed 1.0 and do not draw a card if they are blocked or win combat.
J Anarch Crusher
9(4) damage, 1CP Ender —> 11(4) damage, 2CP Ender
4* Creator and Destroyer
Deleted
AAAA Maximum Anarchy —> AA Maximum Anarchy
0.0 speed, 50(5) damage —> 1.0 speed, 15(2) damage
A* Maximum Anarchy [During Combat]
If you won combat and Maximum Anarchy dealt damage, all players remake their hands (Each player reveals their hand, shuffles it, puts it on the bottom of their deck, then draws that many cards).
AA Slipstream Phase
1.2 speed —> 1.3 speed
You know me, lord of memes.
I’ve just discovered there is a site wide edit limit so I can’t make any more progress today
I’ll add more of the discussed changes from the wishlist to this thread when I’m allowed to lol. Others can also give it a go if they feel up to it, that is the power of wiki posts after all.
I’ve changed the formatting slightly so that speed, damage or CP/type changes are recorded with original —> new for ease of reference.
I’ve also tried to underline ability text that has been changed. This is hard where text has been simply removed or major rework has happened. Where possible I’ve tried to indicate where changes to use occurred.
If something gets removed, you can strike it out.
[s]If something gets removed, you can strike it out.[/s]
Yeah, I was going to go back and do that when I had a moment
I think Setsuki can also be considered stable?