Rules Questions thread

[kittle]

When using spells or abilities that target, do you have to choose a target for which the ability would have some effect, or do you ‘target’ something and then ‘do as much as you can’ in order to resolve its effect (which might mean doing nothing)? So for the purposes of killing illusions, could you use spells meant to target upgrades or buildings? Or could a Crypt Crawler target a non-flier illusion and other similar things?

[zhavier]

When using something that targets, you have to choose one of the specified targets. It is possible for the spell to still do nothing, however.

A spell like Scorch can target your opponents base even though they have morningstar pass and thus do nothing. But all spells that target specify the types of targets that are eligible. General’s Hammer can’t target an Spectral Hound.

This also serves to make sure Flagbearers don’t get wierd and force targeting from Nature Reclaims or something.

[kittle]

Okay that’s all good. I’d searched the thread before trying to find how it worked and read how thunderclap could target non-patrolling illusions and also had to target flag bearers, so I guess that just means non-patrollers are always considered valid targets for sideline abilities.

[Nekoatl]

That’s not correct. River’s midband ability can’t target non-patrollers, because its targeting is restricted to tech 0 and tech I patrollers. The key takeaway from the Thunderclap ruling is that a spell or ability can target anything that meets its targeting restrictions, regardless of whether the ability’s effects make sense for those targets.

[mysticjuicer]

To further clarify about Thunderclap, it specifically says it can target “up to three units without flying that cost 2 or less” and then its effect is that it sidelines them. So it’s able to target units that meet that criteria regardless of whether they are in the patrol zone or not.

[Sniffnoy]

Here’s a question that doesn’t seem to be answered on the card DB. Specifically, towers and swift strike when it’s the defender (not attacker) that has swift strike. In this case, does the tower damage occur simultaneous with swift strike damage or normal combat damage? (This came up in game yesterday where it would have affected whether the attacking unit survived to deal any combat damage.) Thanks!

[Nekoatl]

Swift strike always hits before other combat damage, and Tower damage is combat damage, so swift strike damage lands first and the Tower hits at the same time as normal combat damage. There is no special case for Tower damage to get moved up if the target of the attack has swift strike.

[Hobusu]

There is no special case for Tower damage to get moved up if the target of the attack has swift strike.

I don’t think this is quite as clear-cut as that, since the Tower can hit at swift strike speeds if the attacker has swift strike.

If the attacker has swift strike, the tower still deals combat damage simultaneously as the swift strike. If the attacker has long-range, the tower still deals it damage to the attacker. If the attacker has flying, the tower still hits it as if it had anti-air. — Sirlin, 03/14/16

@sharpobject, any thoughts?

[Nekoatl]

My mistake, I thought I remembered reading that Tower damage happened at the same time as normal combat damage, but I just reread the rules, and it does say Tower damage happens at the same time the attacker deals damage on page 4, which implies that if the defender has swift strike and the attacker doesn’t have swift strike or long range, the defender would apply its swift strike damage and then the tower and attacker would deal damage simultaneously, assuming the attacker survives long enough to deal damage at all.

[zhavier]

Short answer, the attacker survives to deal combat damage.

[sharpobject]

That’s correct. The tower’s combat damage timing is based on the attacker only.

[flagrantangles]

For the purposes of Quince’s midband (and his maxband too, I suppose) does Drakk’s maxband alter the card of a given unit such that Quince can copy it? For instance, if Drakk were at maxband and hired a Seer who then permanently gained haste, can Quince use his midband to turn a mirror illusion into a copy of the Seer with haste?

[zhavier]

The haste granted by Drakk is an added effect to the card, like a +1 rune or Might of Leaf and Claw. The quince mirror effects only copy the printed card, not the additional effects. That said, I think chaos mirror might be high enough in the priority to get copied because it says “printed attack”, but I might be reaching there.

In any event, Drakk’s haste is not copied.

[flagrantangles]

Hmmmmm, well that’s disappointing. I thought since it was permanently added to the unit per sharpo’s rules clarification that it WAS altering the printed values of the card. That’s the opposite of delightful.

[Metalize]

Does Orpal max-band ability resolve, if Orpal dies trading with some unit?

I.e. there is 2/2 max Orpal on my opponent’s side of a board, and I attack him with 2/2 Older Brother. I also have two 1/1 Frogs in play. Do Frogs die?

[Hobusu]

I would say yes because of a similar ruling where Captured Bugblatter’s ability still deals damage to the opponent’s base on its own death.

[sharpobject]

My old post about this says:

The Haste from Drakk’s max-band is permanent, so that Bombaster will have Haste until it leaves play. This matters if your opponent plays Wandering Mimic or steals Bombaster using Mind Control or Ogre Recruiter.

The Haste from Drakk’s max-band is not copied by copy effects. Here is a comprehensive list of things copied by copy effects:

The stuff printed on the card (including color, types, abilities, atk, hp, tech level, cost, and probably some other stuff I forgot, but not including whether a thing is a token or not)
Other copy effects
Polymorph: Squirrel
Atk values set by Chaos Mirror

This is maybe a little arbitrary but it basically works the same as some much older game’s copy effects

[sharpobject]

Frogs will die there.

[Legion]

Is it possible to attack your own units? i do not mean suicide them on opponent’s patrol, but things like killing a crash bomber with an hero (both under your control) to deal the last point of dmg to the enemy. Tyvm

[mysticjuicer]

I don’t believe so.