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Rule questions about hits, blocks and more

Hello, everyone.

Recently, my local group and myself have been getting into Yomi. I got the print and play files and had the cards printed out by the local friendly print store. It’s been a blast, and we’re (well, some of us are) slowly starting to get into the subtleties and mind games. And as is typical for these things, several questions have been raised, that I can’t find conclusive answers for on the internet. I fully accept that it’s likely my google-fu sucking, but I figure it might be best to just go straight in and ask at the source. If there is already a thread that addresses all of these, feel free to call me a dumbass and give me a link. :grin:

So here we go:

  1. What is the definition of a hit? This has divided most of us, and we haven’t found a good answer anywhere. Obviously, an attack/throw beating an attack/throw would count, as would a throw beating a block or dodge. But is an attack hitting a block a hit, regardless of whether it has block damage? Even more relevantly, does a Golden Burst Joker hit when played against a block? Ditto Jaina hitting when using Unstable Power, getting rid of BBB’s range, and more interactions that I can’t think of off the top of my head. Also, in the event of an attack/throw clash of equal speeds, do both hit or does neither hit? (I’d imagine attacks do and throws don’t, since throw techs, but what do I know)

  2. In a brief follow-up to the last thing, if we clash throws, but one of us has KD on the throw and other doesn’t, does the other guy get KD’d?

  3. If you follow up a dodge with a Golden Burst Joker, does that result in Aces?

  4. Let’s say I start a combo with a throw, and my opponent plays a rewind joker. If I played any cards afterwards, do we just go back to the throw and they’re knocked down? And if not, is it the other way around, where if I ended a combo with a knockdown move, and it gets joke’d, do I still knock the opponent down?

  5. When, exactly, does a game end by time out? Is it the very moment a player draws their last card, or after that round? If the former, if it happened in the middle of combat (say, by way of a normal attack that won combat allowing a card draw), do you finish the combat round and then finish?

And now into some character-specific stuff

  1. Does Jaina have to have combat revealed an attack to be able to use Burning Vigor, or just have attacked at any point during the round? (ex. throw followed by normals)

  2. Does Rook only discard revealed special blocks if the opponent attacked, or regardless of what the opponent did?

  3. Speaking of Rook, Entangling Vines says it ignores block damage. Does Stone Wall? Also, related to #1, do either of those count as a hit? :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ve probably forgotten something, which I’ll post later if I remember it. Thank you in advance for your help!

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Hits are (1) combat wins with attacks/throws/jokers, (2) follow-ups off a dodge or throw/attack even if no damage is dealt due to Blue Burst, (3) attack clashes and Gold Burst clashes, and (4) losses to armored moves that state “you still take combat damage”. So Jaina can gold burst on Unstable Power turns, and if she’s successful, she gets 4 Aces. She can also dodge into attack/throw for a “hit” that counts towards Unstable Power. Gold Burst against BBB ends range.

No, neither player is KD’d in this situation. The throws essentially both fail to occur.

No, it would be like discarding the Joker for no effect. Gold Burst specifically requires you to beat a throw or attack with it. It can’t be dodged into.

Jokers only cancel damage - nothing else. So if you don’t end your combo with a move that has a KD symbol, you won’t knock down, regardless of whether a Blue Burst was played or not.

I’m not sure. If the game ends during the draw phase, you end it immediately (whether it be as a result of drawing for the turn, or any draw abilities). I believe the rules may say that the game ends at the end of whatever phase the draw occurs in? I’m not positive. But that method would allow you to complete your combo before time runs out. Hmm.

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She has to have combat revealed an attack. She can’t buy stuff back if she combat revealed a throw or dodge.

He discards them regardless. Think of them like dodges.

Stone Wall ignores/prevents block damage. Neither of their effects count as a ‘hit’. :slight_smile:

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Found the answer to the ‘time out’ question.

[quote]When any player draws the last card in their deck, time has run out and the game
is over. If this happens during the combat phase, end combat first so that any
attacks being played deal their damage. The winner is the player with the highest
life total. If the life totals are tied, the game is a draw.[/quote]

So I think the intent is “you play out that last combat, resolve it, then end the game.” So, for example, the person who got hit can bluff/Joker, but Lum wouldn’t be able to use Poker Flourish, since that happens during the End of Turn phase and the game has already ended in the Combat phase.

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General Stuff:

  1. A hit is when you win combat with an Attack, Throw, or Gold Burst. Losing combat is never a hit. You can think of Gold Burst as an Attack with text: this beats all other Attacks, and as such, it interacts the same as attacks with BBB. Attack clash means both hit, throw tech means no one hits.

  2. If you clash throws, it acts as if neither of you landed it, and as such there is no KD, no matter whether the original throw had KD or not.

  3. No.

  4. Last card in the combo enforces knockdown, no matter whether the enemy blue bursts or not. If you combo normal into Persephone’s On Your Knees, you will always get KD. If you combo throw Persephone’s Rapid Lashes, you will never get KD.

  5. As soon as the last card is drawn, the game ends after combat, but before post combat abilities are resolved. If the last card is drawn in any other phase, the game ends immediately

Character specific.

  1. Yes, Burning Vigor/Burning Desperation can only be used after combat revealing an Attack. Throw into Attack will not trigger Jaina’s character ability.

  2. Rook’s special blocks act like dodges would. They are discarded no matter what. This is opposite what happens with Gwen, who only discards her special block when she blocks an attack/Joker or gets thrown.

  3. Stone Wall also ignores block damage, and neither count as hits (this matters in the Rook-BBB MU).

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I can’t remember the timing on Overdose/Healing off Gloria’s J. Does this mean that Gloria can’t use either of these abilities if the last combat reveal causes someone’s deck to empty?

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Pretty sure that’s how it works.

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We could test it later today if you want.

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Cool, I’ll try to remember to check in tonight. :slight_smile:

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Thanks fellas, this cleared up a lot. What a “hit” is was especially important, because a lot of others cards use terms like “when this wins combat” or “if this deals damage or block damage” or whatnot, so things are gonna be a lot more clear. I did argue repeatedly that a Joker drawing cards off of anything other than a dodge was too much, because then you have an option that Rook can’t do anything about and works against 3 out of 4 options that other characters have (Although I guess the same is true of fast throws in a grappler v. non-grappler matchup, but I digress).

The time-out was pretty important too. Recently we had an amazing Gloria. v. Setsuki match, where Gloria was doing almost no damage but managed to have two healing spheres out for most of the match, so she kept herself alive and burned through her cards at an average rate of 3/4 a turn. Ended in a brilliant play where Gloria was on her second-to-last turn, was 7 HP behind, and then dodged setsuki’s Q, punished with a K putting her in a 1 HP lead, and then played a Joker as a combat card next turn giving her a guaranteed win. But the part we were curious about was if in a different scenario then and there, Gloria would be able to Overdrive.

Anyway, yeah, cheers.

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@kriptosporidium this one is wrong. if jaina during unstable power reveals a 3 and troq a K throw, even if she loses combat, she hit, so she gets her aces. same would happen, for example if she reveals said 3, and her opponent grave does the same. She can choose to rotate into dodge, or to make attack clash so she gets both the aces and the opportunity to buy back said 3 if she is low on cards.

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lol whoops. :stuck_out_tongue:

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lol, mate is more like a really edge case, but if any of them likes jaina, it might even happen :stuck_out_tongue:

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Remember that Jokers can be dodged, and then the opponent gets to hit you back.

And yes, Jokers are very effective vs Rook, as he has no dodges. So if you play one, he can’t damage you. The best thing he can do is block it.

Having two healing spheres for an entire match against Setsuki is pretty impressive. The Setsuki didn’t throw Gloria even once? Didn’t even combo into Starlight Tumbler to knock them off? (Yes, using a throw in a combo still counts as throwing the opponent, and makes Healing Spheres fall off.)

Setsuki unwittingly used two Starlight Kicks for a big early combo, and then didn’t draw into any for a while, and due to Gloria managing to stuff every single throw attempt with a Jack and threw/blocked at every dodge, Setsuki could only keep punching her in the face and throwing aces at her while she healed like a champ. Many, many overdrives sped up the process too.

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