So this came up in casuals this evening. In the online game, Lum is able to power up for aces using aces he just powered up for. I was stated this is technically illegal and a bug, as you can’t power up using cards you just nabbed by powering up. However, I can’t find that rule in the rulebook. Was that piece added later? Thanks.
Determine the total number of Aces you’re entitled to get from chain combos and
discarding pairs, 3-of-a-kinds, and 4-of-a-kinds. Get that many Aces from your
deck or your discard pile.
This is from the rulebook linked to at http://sirlin.net/rules.
Right, but where does it say you can’t turn around and use those aces to power up for more aces? Lum does this to set up Poker Flourish.
I believe the implication here is that it only lists that step being able to be made one time, not as many times as wished.
You can discard multiple sets of cards during the same Power Up phase if you like.
For example, discarding a pair of 4s and also three 7s would entitle you to search
for a total of three Aces. You can even discard a pair of Aces or a pair of Jokers to
get an Ace, though it would be an unusual move to do so.- from the rulebook.
So an example: Lum has 5,5,5,6,10, A. During powerup, Lum discards the three 5s to search for 2 aces. [here’s the questionable part] Lum uses those 2 aces to powerup for one ace. Lum now holds 6, 10, A, A and his top 2 discards are the other 2 aces. After powerup he plays Poker Flourish for 4-of-a-kind. The same situation could happen if Lum hit with a 3-4-5-6 combo to get the 2 aces to start this process.
The people I were playing with say this is illegal because you aren’t supposed to be able to use aces you just searched for to power up for more aces. I can’t find this ruling in the book. Is it that you can only power up once but may use multiple pairs at once to do so, meaning you can’t power up and THEN power up again?
Finally, if this is so, then how come Lum is allowed to do exactly this in the online version of the game?
Determine the total number of Aces you’re entitled to get from chain combos and discarding pairs, 3-of-a-kinds, and 4-of-a-kinds. Get that many Aces from your deck or your discard pile.
This seems fairly unambiguous to me in terms of the fact that the order is discard, calculate the number, and then get the aces (and then power up phase is over). So your summary of “only powering up once but allowed to use multiple pairs” is a good way of putting that.
I’m not sure of the exact reason for this being different in the online client. It’s not the only difference; the other one is not implementing priority as in the rulebook if both players want to play an ability.
If I were to hazard a guess, it’s probably because it was easier to code power ups how they are: One at a time.
And probably then when people realised that was technically incorrect, Thelo had pretty much moved on and was working on other projects, and didn’t have the time to reprogram them to work correctly.
OK. Thanks everyone. I just didn’t want to play Lum wrong in face-to-face play.
I think that Lum players can folow the actual Yomi rules in the digital version and try to stop power up with Aces that just come by power ups the same turn. Would be nice if this happend in the online tournaments. This can be added as a rule in the future tournaments rules, or of course, can be live it like it is.
I believe the policy most players work with is that if the online version doesn’t ban it, then it’s legal when playing online. Trying to enforce something that the game itself doesn’t would be an additional headache for every Lum match, and I don’t think anyone is arguing that this makes Lum too strong. It would be nice if @Thelo fixed it, but he’s busy… So at least for now, it’s just going to be one of those niggling things that isn’t worth much discussion.
The online version of powering up multiple times was confirmed to be an illegal move in the physical card game by Sirlin & co. back when the timerscam was being used with unlimited decks, where you’d just power up for your whole deck to immediately end the game.
Correct. However, in online tournaments featuring non-EX chars it has not been banned. So TL;DR, unless the tournament rules explicitly call it out, you can power up aces that you have powered up for that same turn.
And as Sirlin himself covered in Playing to Win, this kind of thing isn’t worth banning. Until the developer fixes the bug, it’s fair game for anyone who’s trying to win with Lum.
I dont know much about Lum … How does it help him to power for 1 ACE with the 2 ACEs he just powered up ?
Sidequestion if you power up with 2 ACEs, can you get one of them ? Do you have to get a third ace first then discard the 2 ?
Powering up with aces helps him set up poker flourish four of a kind.
Yes, you can power up with aces and immediately get back aces you just powered up.
Can you power up by discarding 2 aces and then retrieving one of those aces in the physical game, too? Because that seems like it would help some characters a bit even if you can’t power up, then do that with the aces you powered up for.
I believe you can but the only character that helps is Lum I think, because you are in essence throwing away an ace for no material gain. The only reason it helps Lum is that he needs pert of his poker hands to be made from the discard pile.
I’m not sure exactly what the last part of your post means, but you can still only power up with cards that exist in your hand that turn.
It could also help Setsuki to get down to 1 card in hand so she can activate Speed of the Fox.
Yes that’s true. And yes I believe she still can in the physical game. But it only helps if the only cards she has in her hand are two aces.
The other part of the question was the bit that’s different between online and physical. Namely, in online play you can power up with any cards to get aces, then use the aces you got from powering up to do another power up. Only Lum benefits from this, and it can’t be done in physical play (because you’re supposed to discard all the cards you’re using for power ups at once, then get all the aces you’re eligible for at once, and then the power up phase is over).
Sorry if you already knew all that, but I was trying to be concise earlier and apparently failed to be clear.