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My rediscovery of Future

I’ve made a small blog post on my recent experience playing with Vir Garbarean.
All of a sudden, every last one weird thing about him, like Knight of the Conclave, Promise of Payment and top/midband just… fell into their place in the puzzle.

https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/62124/vir-vs-setsuki-or-rediscovery-future

I’ve made this thread to discuss more intimate and involved nuances of him, since Geek is not exactly the place for it I believe :slight_smile:

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This is pretty great overall!

I enjoyed reading this. I like how seemingly useless cards suddenly fit together to solve an important aspect of the hero

i read your game. I can see your point, but imho such strategy depletes too many resources to achieve little.

Well I still really like future. Apart from KotC - I really just don’t see the point of that card. But Promise of Payment? Get my expensive Tech 2 out a turn earlier than you otherwise might? At the cost of just 1 card? What’s not to like? Unphase and Assimilate are both obviously great spells, and although he’s expensive at 7 levels, Vir’s abilities seem pretty solid to me. (Although I wish it wasn’t explicitly ruled that his top and midbands are useless when your deck is empty - why on Earth not allow you to reshuffle to get a “top card”??)

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I might be wrong but you strike me as being too concerned about tournament viable strategies and quick to dismiss anything that is not going to hold up in serious competition.
I think the point in the blog post was to have fun puzzling out pulling something cool (as opposite to ‘hey guys I discovered the new purple meta’)

I would love to read more of these fun and deliberate stuff.

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your impression is not wrong, but you see, even in casual games if you goof around while the other guy plays to win, you lose in an instant. Again, i have endless dream combos in head, but they do not work in actual games. maybe is just me, not daydreamer enough and too much earthbound :frowning2:

While the post was about experience, I’d actually claim this to be “hey new purple meta”. I guess casting an ultimate counts as “dream combo” now?

Well, what are you going to do to stop Vir from casting Double Time? Kill him? Sure, go on, he is 3/5 and the 6/7 mech is already incoming. Even if you can kill him at all, Unphase is a thing. If Purple did not sacrifice too much of a tempo to get Vir to 7 lvl, killing him does not exactly win you the game on the spot. In the example game you can see the boardstate turn after maxing Vir - white is already a bit behind, and Snapbacking Vir would actually further solidify being behind. Vir is kind of similar to Arg in that way.

KotC solves the tempo question, as IRONIC as it might sound to solve tempo by playing Forecast 3 card. On Turn 3 you spend 6g to maxband Vir, having any card to play at all during this turn is a godsend, and 0g card is playable on this turn. KotC will come in a couple turns down the road, helping you survive until Double Time happens.

If you think it’s “not worth it” to pull it off for A FREE FRIGGING TURN then I don’t know what to say. Except for “In MtG free turn was instawin” and “Try it yourself”.

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mate, no need to be so aggressive.
I was just stating my 2 cents.
And it consist in the simple concept that if u give your all to max vir (9 frigging gold), tech double time and not only i let vir live to use it but also I do not take adv of the 6 gold u just spent for no immediate board impact, then i deserve to lose, period.
EDIT: also, real codex games usually end at turn 4-5, since even small early mistakes snowball fast.
So if u waste ur 4 turns maxvir+double time, any deck like PPA, necro/truth/blood, demon/finesse/necro (and i could go on for a lot) will kill you before u even can say double time…

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:joy::+1:
I like your enthusiasm.

I dont believe it is as strong as you think it is but I always wanted to use vir ultimate once, so I will definitely try to do it.

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Ach, sorry, my attitude gets the better of me regularly :frowning:

On topic, I’ve been entrenched in your way of thinking forever and ever until I actually tried this different thing.

Turns out, maxing Vir is very very worth it (8 gold btw) if you manage to snag even one good trade with him. Hero himself is a reasonable 3/5, and 6/7 mech he summons is untargetable and immune to majority of the usual anti-token tricks. With a single Seer (Or Time Spiral as I did in example game) you get the mech in patrol as soon as Turn 4, which is super significant and may carry you through the toughest couple of turns right after spending 6 gold on Double Time.

The one thing I’d want to clear - I would not try this vs. any black starter. Mech is so lynchpin, Sacrifice the Weak is too dangerous. Against PPA, however, I’d give it a shot. Stewardess, Boot Camp don’t do much. I guess Chaos Mirror does, but you can take a reasonable gamble on PPA not teching Chaos Mirror among their first two cards and/or not having it in hand at least on T4. Even the perfect answer Chaos Mirrored Nullcraft leaves Mech in SQL with 2 hp.

The sense of inevitability of your victory, the doom clock ticking down is like nothing else :psyduck:

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np mate <3
plz do not get me wrong, i like vir as a hero. he is no fighter but his startb is rlly good, so his mid if ur down on cards and the mech is a nasty stuff.
sadly, manufactured truth or quince midb can just make their own leeching on u and kill yours for almost no expense. no to mention chaos mirror that does not target, same as sacrifice the weak or hooded executioner. among vir’s spells, imho assimilate is great for control, but as much as i have played purple i have not found a suitable use for the others.
I only once witnessed double time being used. against me.
and i lost. but not because of double time.
first, i played really bad :’( (was still new) and second, my opponent managed to draw and play both seers his next turn, and that is p unlikely. possible but unlikely. and i yet survived that since his 1st turn he built board (maxvir+ double time he had no board) extra turn he attacked (so basically achieved nothing).
The thing that killed me was a reaver…
still scarred by that.

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Promise of Payment allows Vir to postpone the “6g waste” for a turn and build a board on the same turn he Double Timed.
Unphase is to guarantee survival for Double Time, but IMO it’s not that necessary. Leaving maxband Vir out there and goading opponent into killing him is perfectly fine. You get a Mech either way, who cares if the guy gets Flame Arrowed or whatever. And maybe you never tech’d those Double Times from the beginning, who knows? :nauticaldog:

Of course, those spells have other uses as well, but it just strikes me how precise those tools are in Double Time context. As well as his topband that almost ensures you get the right combination of cards at the right time, not too early.

Well, TECHNICALLY I did not win the example game on Double Time turn. But I secured the board and snowballed from there. Sure, I gave up 6g and a card on T4, but I’ve got a free Turn 8, with worker gold, extra worker, extra redraw and extra attack, not to mention an extra window for maxbanding Vir and playing Double Time #2 which I totally did not do :sweat_smile:

What I’m saying is 6g and a card may seem steep, but you are getting a hell of a lot more in return. If you survive.

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I found early max Vir to be a viable opening in Purple, and I think it can stand-up in tournament play given the right conditions. I played mono-Purple in RACE #3, and used max Vir both with ultimate and without (and also teching it but never getting chance to play it) All were against strong opponents, so I think Vir can definitely stand up to tournament play.

However, there are a lot of situations where it doesn’t work. Black has Sac the Weak and Executioner, Blue has Manufactured Truth and Quince. Red can tech Chaos Mirror which makes it easier to deal with your Mech, and Green can similarly tech Tiny Basilisk. Purple can tech their own Seers to delay your Double Time or Mech, if you don’t manage to get it to arrive the turn you max Vir.

Where it does work though, it’s pretty good. I tech Seers much earlier than you though. If you double tech Seer on turn 2, you have a very good chance of being able to bring the Mech in on turn 3. (Typically you’re drawing 5 cards from an 8 card deck, and you need to hit 2 of your 3 time rune manipulation cards. Vir’s midband gives you an extra chance if he doesn’t have arrival fatigue, and if you can get a tech draw you guarantee it). A 6/7, a 3/5 and 1 or 2 2/1s on turn 3 is a pretty strong tempo play, and as you can see from some of the games I played, your opponent finds it tough to come back.

Double Time I feel is fairly costed. If you can get it to resolve, future has solid tech II options (read: Omegacron) to mean that you can probably either finish the game, or maybe even push another Double Time through. It’s definitely a high risk play though.

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