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[Casual] Dwarddd MonoGrey vs Zhavier MonoBlack

Thanks for doing this @zhavier, I hope you enjoy the cards!

Here is the current spreadsheet, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rLxi7NbnD8CU0GF3Um_YOjbXWqUWYeA3PqtCpy3EsVc/edit?usp=sharing
for now I’ll also include abilities in my posts for ease

I’ve added some rulings based on James’ matches against Nekoatl so if you think of anything else which should go in that column please point it out :slight_smile:

P1T1


StartingHand Workers

STARTING HAND
Gentle Giant
Stepping Stone Villain
Pivot
Arcadian Double
Choose Fate


WORKERS
Choose Fate


NextHand

Dwarven Supplies
Underequipped Soldier
Shining Prince
Doomed Peasant
Fantassin


Discard

Arcadian Double
Pivot
Gentle Giant


Tech 0 card(s)
Get Paid - ($4)
Worker - ($3)
Stepping Stone Villain - ($2)
Hire Tariq - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 3, draw 5


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger: Stepping Stone Villain(1/1) trash this when it dies
  • :pschip: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • L1 Tariq(2/3) my “healing” is at EoT instead of upkeep

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 0
  • Disc: 3

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 5
2 Likes

For now I think we should play without Named Units in the deck, there are entries for the cards in the normal places as well which describe normal cards.
Our main problem with them is that there is no simple description which generalises the rules so they become a mess of specific rulings.
If you feel like looking at the general idea and thinking about it go ahead (small details such as how many spells they can cast are free to change) but if not im perfectly happy to play with the normal units.

(The Named versions are underneath the tech 3 cards in the sheet)

P2T1


StartingHand Workers

STARTING HAND
Skeleton Javelineer
Jandra, the Negator
Thieving Imp
Sacrifice the Weak
Poisonblade Rogue


WORKERS
Jandra, the Negator


NextHand

Graveyard
Summon Skeletons
Skeletal Archery
Deteriorate


Discard

Sacrifice the Weak
Poisonblade Rogue


Tech card(s)
Get Paid - ($5)
Worker - ($4)
Thieving Imp - ($1)
Skeleton Javelineer - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 2, draw 4


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Thieving Imp 2/2
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician: Skeleton Javelineer 1/1
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:
*

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 1
  • Disc: 2

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 6

P1T2


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Priest
Legionary Heavy


STARTING HAND
Doomed Peasant
Shining Prince
Fantassin
Underequipped Soldier
Dwarven Supplies


WORKERS
Choose Fate
Dwarven Supplies


NextHand

Arcadian Double
Priest
Fantassin
Gentle Giant


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid, discard - ($5)
Worker - ($4)
Tariq and SSV kill SQL, SSV is trashed
midband Tariq - ($2)
Tech 1 - ($1)
Doomed Peasant - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 2, reshuffle, draw 4


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician: Doomed Peasant(1/1) dies: summon (0/1) undead token
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • L3 Tariq(2/4) healing 1, my “healing” is at EoT instead of upkeep, tap to ‘heal’ hand

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 4
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 6

P2T2


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Hooded Executioner
Dark Pact


STARTING HAND
Summon Skeletons
Skeletal Archery
Graveyard
Deteriorate


WORKERS
Jandra, the Negator
Graveyard


NextHand

Sacrifice the Weak
Pestering Haunt
Poisonblade Rogue


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($6)
Worker - ($5)
Vandy - ($3)
Tech 1 - ($2)
Skeletal Archery - ($0)
skeleton kills Peasant
Deteriorate undead

Float ($0)
Discard 1, draw 1, reshuffle, draw 2


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Vandy 2/3+A, lvl 1
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Skeletal Archery
  • Skeleton Javelineer 1/1

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 3
  • Deck: 5
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 7

P1T3


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Angel of Contrition
Blessed Troops


STARTING HAND
Arcadian Double
Gentle Giant
Priest
Fantassin
Legionary Heavy


WORKERS
Choose Fate
Dwarven Supplies
Fantassin


NextHand

Angel of Contrition
Pivot
Shining Prince
Underequipped Soldier


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($6)
Worker - ($5)
Legionary Heavy - ($2)
Arcadian Double, exhaust legionary and make a 3/4 hasty token - ($0)
legionary double and Tariq kill Vandy, tariq to lvl 5, 2dmg
End of turn: Tariq heals 1

Float ($0)
Discard 2, draw 3, reshuffle, draw 1


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • L5 Tariq(2/3) healing 1, my “healing” is at EoT instead of upkeep, tap to ‘heal’ hand
  • Legionary Heavy(3/4) patrols: grant adjacent patrollers 1a

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 5
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 7

Unfortunately I think the Undead Peasant was Deteriorated away

Oops, didnt notice the skele kill actually and so misread deterioate as just killing the nornal one.
No change, just patrol nothing

P2T3


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Cursed Ghoul
Cursed Crow


STARTING HAND
Pestering Haunt
Sacrifice the Weak
Poisonblade Rogue


WORKERS
Jandra, the Negator
Graveyard
Pestering Haunt


NextHand

Deteriorate
Hooded Executioner
Dark Pact


Discard

Sacrifice the Weak
Poisonblade Rogue
Cursed Ghoul
Cursed Crow


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($7)
Worker - ($6)
Garth + Skeleton - ($3)
Sac the Weak, poof goes Legion and my new skelly - ($1)
Javelineer hits base

Float ($1)
Discard 1, draw 3


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Garth 1/3+A
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Skeletal Archery
  • Skeleton Javelineer 1/1, with javelin

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 3
  • Deck: 2
  • Disc: 4

Gold:

  • Gold: 1
  • Workers: 8

P1T4


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Forgive
Mirror Knight


STARTING HAND
Shining Prince
Pivot
Underequipped Soldier
Angel of Contrition


WORKERS
Choose Fate
Dwarven Supplies
Fantassin
Shining Prince


NextHand

Doomed Peasant(1/1) dies: summon (0/1) undead token
Gentle Giant
Arcadian Double
Priest
Blessed Troops


Discard

Legionary Heavy(3/4) patrols: grant adjacent patrollers 1a
Pivot
Angel of Contrition
Forgive
Mirror Knight


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($7)
Worker - ($6)
Tech 2 Good - ($2)
Underequipped soldier, give him a shield - ($0)
Tap tariq to draw 5 instead of 4 this turn

Float ($0)
Discard 2, draw 5


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Underequipped Soldier(2/3) shield, i pay one when he dies
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • L5 Tariq(2/4) healing 1, my “healing” is at EoT instead of upkeep, tap to ‘heal’ hand

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Good)

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 0
  • Disc: 5

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 8

Seems to me the soldier should be “Dies: Generate 1 less gold during your next upkeep”

Also, Arcadian Double is crazy strong compared to charge or manufactured truth, which are the closest similar starter cards. Essentially, both of those cards cost 2 cards, usually, to do what you did. Actually, the same exact effect as what you did would be charge and infinite armor.

P2T4


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Gorgon
Nether Drain


STARTING HAND
Deteriorate
Hooded Executioner
Dark Pact


WORKERS
Jandra, the Negator
Graveyard
Pestering Haunt
Dark Pact


NextHand

Thieving Imp
Cursed Crow
Summon Skeletons


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + float - ($9)
Worker - ($8)
Hooded Executioner - ($6)
Tech 2 Disease - ($2)
Make a skeleton - ($1)

Float ($1)
Discard 1, draw 2, reshuffle, draw 1


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Hooded Executioner 3/3+A
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger: Skeleton 1/1
  • :pschip: Technician: Skeleton Javelineer 1/1, with javelin
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Skeletal Archery
  • Garth 1/3

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Disease)

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 3
  • Deck: 6
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 1
  • Workers: 9

For the soldier that is a matter of balancing: atm it’s modelled off fargo who has a situational drawback that, if played around, rarely comes into play. I think with everything else the same generating one less gold next upkeep would make soldier a pretty poor card? But as he is right now he is pretty good…
Incidentally UE soldier’s drawback did change my turn here - I wanted to maxband Tariq after attacking with him, but would’ve had to do it before killing off UE and so would’ve healed hoody when maxbanding Tariq.
Arcadian double is strong, but it’s not the same as charge with infinite armour - charge gives +1atk and can target tech 2s as well. If we’re being picky charge also lets them keep their abilities e.g. if they have flying. That said, arcadian double is our least favourite card in the starter deck; we found the starter deck the hardest to design both in terms of finding new ground compared to the other starters and thematically finding inspiration.
Any suggestions on slightly toning down Double?

P1T5


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Angel of Contrition
Goblinfire


STARTING HAND
Gentle Giant
Priest
Doomed Peasant(1/1) dies: summon (0/1) undead token
Arcadian Double
Blessed Troops


WORKERS
Choose Fate
Dwarven Supplies
Fantassin
Shining Prince
Gentle Giant


NextHand

Forgive
Underequipped Soldier(2/3) shield, i pay one when he dies
Doomed Peasant(1/1) dies: summon (0/1) undead token
Legionary Heavy(3/4) patrols: grant adjacent patrollers 1a


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($8)
Worker - ($7)
Blessed Troops - ($4)
Priest - ($2)
Tariq hits SQL
Hire Cat - ($0)
UE soldier trades with SQL, no money left to pay his family
Tariq heals 1

Float ($0)
Discard 2, reshuffle, draw 4


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Priest(3/3a) pay 1+ tap to heal or deal 2dmg
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician: Blessed Troops(4/5) healing X, X=dmg chits on this
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • L5 Tariq(2/2) healing 1, my “healing” is at EoT instead of upkeep, tap to ‘heal’ hand
  • L1 Cat(2/3) gain 1atk per dmg

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Good)

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 6
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 9

P2T5


StartingHand Workers

STARTING HAND
Thieving Imp
Summon Skeletons
Cursed Crow


WORKERS
Jandra, the Negator
Graveyard
Pestering Haunt
Dark Pact
Summon Skeletons


NextHand

Sacrifice the Weak
Cursed Ghoul


Discard

Hooded Executioner


Tech 0 card(s)
Get Paid + float - ($10)
Worker - ($9)
Cursed Crow - ($6)
Thieving Imp, Discard #1 - ($3)
Another Skeleton - ($2)
Vandy - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 0, draw 2


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Skeleton 1/1+A
  • :psfist: Elite: Thieving Imp 3/2
  • :ps_: Scavenger: Skeleton 1/1
  • :pschip: Technician: Skeleton Javelineer 1/1, with javelin
  • :target: Lookout: Cursed Crow 3/3

In Play:

  • Skeletal Archery
  • Garth 1/3
  • Vandy 2/3

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Disease)

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 2
  • Deck: 4
  • Disc: 1

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 10

Whoops, forgot my techs. Dont play distracted :stuck_out_tongue:

My discard is 2 bigger

1 Like

Your discard got rid of my possibly game-deciding card xd

P1T6


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Assign nemesis
Forgive


STARTING HAND
Legionary Heavy(3/4) patrols: grant adjacent patrollers 1a
Doomed Peasant(1/1) dies: summon (0/1) undead token
Forgive
Underequipped Soldier(2/3) shield, i pay one when he dies


WORKERS
Choose Fate
Dwarven Supplies
Fantassin
Shining Prince
Gentle Giant
Underequipped Soldier(2/3) shield, i pay one when he dies


NextHand

Angel of Contrition
Pivot
Mirror Knight


Discard

Forgive
Legionary Heavy(3/4) patrols: grant adjacent patrollers 1a
Assign nemesis
Forgive


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($9)
Worker - ($8)
tariq kills sql
Cat kills Scav skele
blessed troops kills Imp
maxband cat - ($3)
doomed Peasant ($2)
troops heal themselves and tariq

Float ($2)
Discard 1, draw 3


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Priest(3/3a) pay 1+ tap to heal or deal 2dmg
  • :psfist: Elite: Crow Sisters(2+1/2) flying, spellcaster, only attacks base
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician: Doomed Peasant(1/1) dies: summon (0/1) undead token
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • L5 Tariq(2/4) healing 1, my “healing” is at EoT instead of upkeep, tap to ‘heal’ hand
  • L6 Cat(3/5) gain 1atk per dmg
  • Blessed Troops(4/5) healing X, X=dmg chits on this

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Good)

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 3
  • Deck: 3
  • Disc: 4

Gold:

  • Gold: 2
  • Workers: 10

So one of the traps of making a fan game is saying “its basically balanced because this other card does a similar effect.” Its a trap, because you can end up cherry picking cards to compare to, without looking at the whole. Like, if you end up comparing all your starter cards with deteriorate, charge, manufactured truth, grappling hook, or Rampant Growth, you might get a sense of those being middle of the road in power, instead of being at the high end of power level.

Cat appears to have the wrong attack value, as it goes back down to 2 at max on the spreadsheet.

P2T6


StartingHand Workers

STARTING HAND
Sacrifice the Weak
Cursed Ghoul


WORKERS
Jandra, the Negator
Graveyard
Pestering Haunt
Dark Pact
Summon Skeletons


NextHand

Deteriorate
Poisonblade Rogue


Discard

Hooded Executioner
Plague Lab
Cursed Crow
Thieving Imp
Sacrifice the Weak
Skeleton Javelineer


Tech 0 card(s)
Get Paid + Scav - ($11)
Maxband Vandy, Doomed Peasant and Javelineer doomed - ($7)
Cursed Ghoul, Priest gets -1 - ($3)
Javelineer kills Priest
Cursed Crow kills Peasant
Garth kills undead token
Vandy kills Tariq, garth to lvl 3
Sac the Weak, Flying Token dies with doomed Javelineer - ($1)
Make a skeleton - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 0, draw 2


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Cursed Ghoul 4/5+A
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician: Skeleton 1/1
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Skeletal Archery
  • Garth 1/3, lvl 3
  • Vandy 4/3, lvl 5
  • Cursed Crow 3/3

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Disease)

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 2
  • Deck: 2
  • Disc: 6

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 10

Mm that is good advice. Comparing all the starter cards to pre-existing ones was an exercise I hadn’t done before as I’d mostly had practice justifying the higher power cards (which I could do by cherry picking other starters’ higher-power cards ofc). Overall I don’t think Grey starter is overly powerful atm, but probably on the higher end of starter decks as I found myself slightly more often using other starter decks’ “good” cards as comparisons.

P1T7


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Saint of Swords
Saint of Swords


STARTING HAND
Angel of Contrition
Mirror Knight
Pivot
Arcadian Double


WORKERS
Choose Fate
Dwarven Supplies
Fantassin
Shining Prince
Gentle Giant
Underequipped Soldier(2/3) shield, i pay one when he dies


NextHand

Saint of Swords
Arcadian Double
Angel of Contrition
Goblinfire
Angel of Contrition


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + float - ($12)
Tech 3 - ($7)
Mirror Knight, tbh i think this is on the fence of costing 5 - he is big but also poor in attack - ($3)
Troops and Cat kill Ghoul take 4 each

Float ($3)
Discard 3, draw 2, reshuffle, draw 3


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Mirror Knight(2/8a) mirrors combatant’s attack, r1
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • L6 Cat(2+4/1) gain 1atk per dmg
  • Blessed Troops(4/1) healing X, X=dmg chits on this=4

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Good)
  • :heart: Tech III HP: 5

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 8
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 3
  • Workers: 10

P2T7


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Death Rites


STARTING HAND
Poisonblade Rogue
Deteriorate
Nether Drain


WORKERS
Jandra, the Negator
Graveyard
Pestering Haunt
Dark Pact
Summon Skeletons


NextHand

Gorgon
Sacrifice the Weak
Nether Drain


Tech 1 card(s)
Get Paid - ($10)
Cursed Crow kills Cat, Garth to 5
Deteriorate Blessed Troops go POOF
Skeleton pings Mirror Knight’s Armor because he can
Sac Skeleton to Draw
Hint: Always build a tower against maxband Vandy
Vandy taps, discards, and Fetches Metamorphosis, Crow is killed, Vandy and Garth maxbands and become Demons, Garth fetches Cursed Ghoul, puts Rune on MIrror Knight - ($3)
Garth sneaks past knight and breaks your tech 3, base to 15
Heroes Hall - ($1)
Make another Skeleton - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 1, draw 1, reshuffle, draw 2


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Cursed Ghoul 4/5+A
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger:
  • :pschip: Technician: Skeleton 1/1
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Skeletal Archery
  • Vandy 6/5, lvl 5, +2, Demon
  • Garth 5/6, lvl 7, +2, Demon

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Disease)
  • :heart: Heroes’ Hall HP: 4

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 3
  • Deck: 10
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 10

Woops, resist means I can’t make that skeleton, ignore the skeleton, paid resist

Oh yeah oops, it’s not quite an instinct for me yet and I stupidly forgot about Vandy’s midband so just didn’t build a tower even though i had the gold xd

P1T8


StartingHand Workers

STARTING HAND
Angel of Contrition
Goblinfire
Arcadian Double
Saint of Swords
Angel of Contrition


WORKERS
Choose Fate
Dwarven Supplies
Fantassin
Shining Prince
Gentle Giant
Underequipped Soldier(2/3) shield, i pay one when he dies
Goblinfire


NextHand

Doomed Peasant(1/1) dies: summon (0/1) undead token
Forgive
Pivot
Saint of Swords
Legionary Heavy(3/4) patrols: grant adjacent patrollers 1a


Discard

Blessed Troops(4/1) healing X, X=dmg chits on this
Angel of Contrition
Arcadian Double
Saint of Swords


Tech 0 card(s)
Get Paid + float - ($13)
tower - ($10)
Angel of Contrition - ($3)
Tariq - ($1)
tariq heals monks 1
worker

Float ($1)
Discard 3, draw 5


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Angel of Contrition(7/6a) if both monks reach full health: gain obliterate 2, if both monks die: die
  • :psfist: Elite: Mirror Knight(1+1/7a) (-)mirrors combatant’s attack, r1
  • :ps_: Scavenger: Lantern Monk(0/2) 1dmg
  • :pschip: Technician: Lantern Monk(0/2) 1dmg
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Tariq(2/3) healing 1, healing at EoT

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 18
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Good)
  • :heart: Tech III HP: 5
  • :heart: Tower HP: 4

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 3
  • Disc: 4

Gold:

  • Gold: 1
  • Workers: 11