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Blue balancing suggestions


#61

As a side note speculation, how ridiculous would injunction be if it could affect tech 0 units/tokens…


#62

Hey @Nekoatl, want to play black and blue with the deteriorate change (in addition to @zhavier and @Bomber678) to compound the data gathering? 10 game series, 5 each as p1/p2, my modified deteriorate black against your blue?


#63

I think it would jump from a niche-ish “big swing on a good read, barely stalls in a usually useless way otherwise” to being a frequently teched tempo play for blue, and perhaps overshadow some of Judgment Day’s usage for beating token spam


#64

Yeah, I’ve been thinking of testing the matchup with a rules change to “weakest” so that HP is compared after attack but before the active player gets to choose to break the tie, but a $1 Deteriorate sounds worth a try. I’d prefer to wait until after the tournament is finished, though, as I don’t want to overstretch myself.


#65

I’m game to take that up after we’re both knocked out


#66

Can you also try out all the other Blue changes we have so far? Just smack them all together and see how things feel and what seems meaningless or superfluous.

Blue changes to test

Starter:
Lawful Search also forces opponent to lose 1g;

Truth:
Spectral Tiger has Resist 1;
Mind Control costs 3g instead of 5g;

Peace:
D. Alpha costs 4g and his ability affects all attackers while he is in SQL;
Air Hammer is 4/3, loses his ability (Essentially an Eggship);

Law:
Tax Collector is 3/3;
Jurisdiction 2g, but lets you look at opponent’s hand or discard before picking a spell from Codex;
Community Service 4g;
Arresting Constable 2g;
Guardian of the Gates now has 2 attack, his ability affects Heroes as well as units;
Justice Juggernaut costs 5g;


#67

I don’t remember seeing that one before. I won’t claim it’s good or bad, but I’m surprised I don’t remember it… Though I’m sure I just overlooked it among the many other changes suggested.


#68

That change would actually discourage me from using them, as they would no longer be able to one-shot tech buildings (without being buffed, of course).


#69

Air Hammer is not able to one-shot Tech buildings :joy:

His ability reads:

+2 ATK when attacking damaged buildings.

Yes, I made the very same mistake and believed he kills tech buildings by himself for almost two years :sob:

It’s a very recent addition. After I actually read the card text.
I guess you can “test” him as if his ability always works when he attacks buildings. But wait, you were doing that all that time and still never teched him :joy:


#70

Oh no, I at least did know that it only applied to damaged buildings. I guess the intended play with it is to have Traffic Director ping all the buildings and then go in with Air Hammer(s), but unfortunately Peace already has a more effective way to Just Kill Them with Garrisons & Sergeants (since even if you wanted to use Air Hammer it would be better to juice it up with runes).


#71

Touche. It’s been a while since I looked at him, as my preferred Peace game plan is to simply bulldoze through my opponent’s patrollers, rather than trying to bypass them. If my units die in the process, so much the better, as that means they can be replayed for more bonuses.


#72

Trying to think outside the box here: what if Deteriorate couldn’t pop illusions?

This would make Aven an actual threat in the early game, as it is in other Blue matchups. Black would still have a starter deck answer to it in Skeletal Archery, which is currently underplayed. And Black could also still deal with Spectral Hounds, though it might require playing Orpal, for a change.

I’m not really sure what’s the best way to implement this. The most straightforward way would be making Deteriorate not target, but that makes it better against Traffic Director and anything in lookout. This could be pretty bad for Merfolk Prospector, Aged Sensei, etc., but maybe it could work with the change to cost $1?


#73

Guys I just had a really cool idea.
What if Arresting Constable had haste?


#74

This would make Aven an actual threat in the early game, as it is in other Blue matchups.

Aven is such a crutch in every non-black matchup, tbh. I’m not sure I like it this way.

The most straightforward way would be making Deteriorate not target,

Making Deteriorate not target will be a buff, because main way Blue fights Deteriorate + StW combo is Traffic Director. Who is, in turn, screwed by Pestering Haunt every time, but Haunt is at least telegraphed :sleepy:

Also, Nullcraft becomes a valid victim.

And no target symbol on Deteriorate is counter-intuitive. I have to explicitly explain Chaos Mirror and Manufactured Truth to new people all the time. Wouldn’t want to add Deteriorate to the list.

what if Deteriorate couldn’t pop illusions?

I think any sort of direct rider akin to Can't target Illusions is bad. Inelegant. Clumsy.

Removing target symbol, as shown, seems to be a no-go.

I don’t know how to implement this. Nor am I sure it’s even necessary.

In Aven’s case, you can still pull him out Turn1 if Det costs 1g. Put it in Lookout. If they pop it, you come out even. If they don’t, you have an opportunity to attack and gain some value. Not stellar, but possible.

Guys I just had a really cool idea.
What if Arresting Constable had haste?

Hmm. Outside of “That’s not Law colorpie” and “That seems to be really powerful” I can’t think of counter-reasons. It might be powerful enough to warrant 4g cost. Colorpie is a strong argument against it, though. One of Law’s theme seems to be slow, deliberate and telegraphing everything.

But there is Arrest already, “Tier2-Arrest-on-a-Schtick-that-hits-nonpatrollers” might be acceptable.


#75

Instead of giving Arresting Constable haste, you could give it “arrives: X” but haste is more elegant.


#76

On a more deliberate consideration, giving Haste to Constable seriously breaks your heuristics about pushing sizeable Tier II units against Law.

Law has a lot of ways to screw with “T2 big boys” game plan, but it still can be maneuvered around in a certain way.

Arrest targets only patrollers, Porky and Constable are small and need to stick to a board for a turn, Guardian has to be attacked. Injunction, Judgement Day and Community Service are all immediate, but they require Bigby and they are spells. So, Free Speech, Snapback, Carrion Curse, Newsman all are potential tools to support your Big Boys strategy against Law. And, of course, murdering Bigby is always there.

If Constable has Haste, however, you also have to kill Law T2 building itself on the turn you develop your Gigadon. It’s so hard it pushes Law from “Troublesome” to “Outright impossible” for any Big Boys gameplan. I’m not sure I like it :roll_eyes:

But you know, you still have to tech him, and we are talking about T2 which are supposed to be kinda OP. And nobody is forcing you to stick to Big Boys after all…

It’s still worth trying out, I’d say. If only to confirm that it’s too unfun to play against.


#77

You make a good point, and your reasoning is sound.
Consider this counterpoint:
Law Tech 2 is trash and no-one ever uses it because of this reason.


#78

Legit.

I suggest this then

Arresting Constable
4 gold 2/3 Law Tech2
Arrives: Win the game

That will show those lawless scoundrels! :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:


#79

Most of the good tech 2 is “arrives: win the game if opponent doesn’t have X” as it stands. Blue has Garrisons but even then that’s a winning combo more than a winning card.


#80

I don’t think the sarcasm is warranted here, even if well-spirited.

I actually like giving Constable Haste. I think it fits flavor-wise to have a zealous lawman be quick to arrest folks, and having haste gives law (and Blue tech 2 in general) at least one hasty unit, albiet a very weak combat one. I think it’s actually a great improvement to what is otherwise a “never-tech” tier card (seriously, Law tech 2 is perhaps the worst tech 2 spec in the game, giving its worst unit haste would not break the game)