Rules Questions thread

[lettucemode]

@mysticjuicer

So let’s take the Bugballter in Tactician killed by Shadowblade example:

Shadowblade is cast on Bugblatter killing it.
Three things go into the cue simultaneously, as they are all triggered off of Bugblatter dying: the tactician bonus, shadowblade’s trigger, and bugblatter’s ability.
Active player chooses the order of resolution.

This contradicts all previous discussions regarding Shadow Blade.

[mysticjuicer]

Then I have no idea what’s happening and will wait for clarification.

[lettucemode]

I thought it was known that Smoker is the exception to the normal timing rules. If base damage from tech building destruction needs to be the second exception, that seems fine to me and also seems like the cleanest way to resolve the situation.

[mysticjuicer]

Never heard of it. Until I checked the card database I wasn’t aware that there was some accepted timing rule that he was an exception to. What does the “resolve everything that you’re doing first, then do triggered abilities” ruling prevent from happening that having exceptions to it is a benefit, would be my question.

[lettucemode]

It prevents Smoker existing in its current form (returning to your hand before it takes damage from a burn spell), and it might also prevent your base taking damage from a tech building destruction for a bit, apparently.

I’m confused and would like an answer too - sorry if I came off blunt there.

[EricF]

@mysticjuicer

Does that mean (1) Sentry prevents the first damage dealt by an ability each turn (i.e. it will prevent 1 damage per turn), or (2) Sentry prevents the first point of damage dealt by each ability (i.e. it prevents 1 damage per ability)? I assume it’s (1) but my brain just can’t parse this ability.

Question about Assimilate used on Bird’s Nest.

Does assimilating an opponent’s bird’s nest give you 2 birds? I think that “get 2 birds” is only something that happens when you cast it, but I’m not completely 100% positive. If assimilating bird’s nest does give you 2 birds, does it care how many birds are still alive on the opponent’s board?

Similar question about Assimilating someone’s Hive. I assume the Stingers don’t die, because the Hive didn’t die. But is the assimilated Hive prevented from generating Stingers by the Stingers that are in its opponent’s control?

Sentry prevents 1 damage per turn, and only from spells or abilities (note that Sparkshot and Overpower count as Abilities for this purpose)

Stealing the opponent’s thing does not trigger Arrives: abilities. (you can’t assimilate a Hive, since it’s a Unit, but you could Mind Control or Kidnap it)

Limit: X does not count tokens controlled by other players. see here:http://codexcarddb.com/ruling/limit_x. Note that this means if you steal an opponent’s Hive, and they play a second one, the second Hive’s Arrives: make 5 stingers will only make enough stingers to bring their total up to 5, per the Limit: 5 stingers/hive requirement.

[EricF]

Smoker works in the same timing window as Illusions being destroyed, by fiat.

In fact, I think if you make Smoker an Illusion (with Dreamscape) and then target it, the active player decides if it is destroyed or returns to hand?

[mysticjuicer]

@EricF

Stealing the opponent’s thing does not trigger Arrives: abilities. (you can’t assimilate a Hive, since it’s a Unit, but you could Mind Control or Kidnap it)

Spells don’t have arrive abilities though. But you’re right - if the “put two birds into play” effect of Bird’s Nest wasn’t a “only when you cast it” thing, then you wouldn’t even need the “put more birds into play during your upkeep” ability. Thanks Eric!

[mysticjuicer]

But it wouldn’t have to be fiat if triggers interrupted stuff…

[EricF]

Heh, when I coded my Bashing vs. Finesse game, I treated the spell resolution the same as an Arrives ability.

[lettucemode]

@EricF

Smoker works in the same timing window as Illusions being destroyed

Sounds good, so then base damage from tech building destruction could work similarly.

[mysticjuicer]

I’d still like to know what situation this current exception based system prevents compared to a “first triggers interrupt” mode.

[sharpobject]

It is a little troubling that in the game rules “When X, Y” frequently means to do Y right away, but in the card text “When X, Y” almost always means to put the action of doing Y at the end of the queue of things to do.

The ability on Smoker and the game rule about Illusions have to happen during the resolution of spells and abilities to work. Also, abilities like the one on Graveyard that instructs you to move things out of your discard pile have to somehow always happen before abilities that instruct you to draw a card.

[sharpobject]

Shadow Blade does not have a triggered ability. When you use Shadow Blade to kill a patroller, your opponent discards a card during the resolution of Shadow Blade.

The rest of this post is good, but I found the beginning confusing.

[sharpobject]

@mysticjuicer

Does that mean (1) Sentry prevents the first damage dealt by an ability each turn (i.e. it will prevent 1 damage per turn), or (2) Sentry prevents the first point of damage dealt by each ability (i.e. it prevents 1 damage per ability)? I assume it’s (1) but my brain just can’t parse this ability.

Sentry can prevent up to 1 damage per turn.

Assimilating Bird’s Nest does not give you birds. If you have a Strength hero, you’ll get birds later though.

Limit: 5 per Hive on Stingers refers to units you control represented by Stinger tokens and units you control that are Hives in the derived state (even if they are something else copying a Hive). So if you have 0 units represented by Stinger tokens and you steal a Hive (Assimilate won’t let you do this but maybe you used Kidnapping or something) then you can make 5 Stingers.

[sharpobject]

Sentry does not prevent damage redirected by Overpower

[sharpobject]

I don’t know, I haven’t really thought about that one.

[EricF]

Why not? What’s different in the wording of Overpower compared to Sparkshot?

[zhavier]

Overpower doesnt deal the damage, it just redirects existing combat damage, I think?

Sparkshot actually creates damage.

[robinz]

Completely random question unrelated to anything I’ve actually seen in a game, but it just popped into my head and I’m intrigued:

Suppose my opponent has a max-level Rook, with a crumbling rune, and I cast Nether Drain to take him down 2 levels. Does he die? I would guess that he would, since he no longer has two lives, but I don’t think it’s 100% clear-cut from the rules as I know them - because according to the strict text on the card, the crumbling rune has no meaning if he’s not at max level. You could argue that he’s just an ordinary Rook with whatever level of damage he has, and a strange rune which has no meaning.

I guess a similar situation could also arise if you played Polymorph Squirrel on an opponent’s Justice Juggernaut which has a crumbling rune but no further damage. Sure, it would probably be easy to kill off in any case after that, but it would make a big difference if it dies straight there and then.

So basically what I’m asking is: if something with 2 lives has a crumbling rune and something makes it no longer have 2 lives, does it die straight away or not? (Runs off to get some popcorn while the rules lawyers on here debate it )