This seems weird, and makes Sirlin’s clarification sound wrong:
[quote]
This effect checks what his ATK is after applying all effects and runes. It doesn’t just check his printed or “base” ATK. — Sirlin[/quote]
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Moreover, if Bluecoat Musketeer stops checking its ATK before the Elite bonus applies (which is what I think @sharpobject is saying happens), then what makes it different from Doubling Barbarbarian (since he doubles the ATK he gains from Elite)?
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Yeah, for the Musketeer to keep Long-Range while in the Elite slot (without a -1/-1 rune), the Elite slot would have to be some kind of weird non-effect mechanic that alters combat performance without actually modifying a patroller’s attack This would also have other implications, like you wouldn’t be able to use Elite placement to affect what can be selected as the “weakest” unit by Sacrifice the Weak.
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It also effects Forgotten Fighter a lot (I know I’ve patrolled stuff in Elite to stop it being a valid target for FF…)
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Every time the game applies a buff to a thing, it has to check whether the thing has the Doubling Barbarbarian ability and double it if so. Doubling Barbarbarian’s ability is not something that can be applied only once at a certain time when working out the stats of Doubling Barbarbarian, unlike basically everything else in the game.
Okay, so Barbarbarian gets to break the normal rules. I can accept that, since it’s a unique ability…
But it still seems weird that Bluecoat Musketeer can ever have more than 1 ATK and Long Range at the same time, since its ability says that can’t happen. I’m willing to believe this can make sense too, but you’ll have to explain it a bit more clearly. You’ve explained below, and I’m satisfied with it. Thanks!
The elite slot gives +1 atk after Musketeer has checked whether to get long range. The lookout slot gives resist 1 after Midori has checked whether something has an ability or not.
If you play Doom Grasp on a thing in the resist slot, you have to pay gold because it has resist. If you play sacrifice the weak, you must choose your opponent’s non-elite wisp instead of their elite wisp, because the elite wisp has 1 atk.
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Sure. I dislike that you can have the Musketeer have long range while 2/2 or not have it while 1/1, but from my perspective I would have to add more exceptions to the game to fix this.
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Wouldn’t it be easier to just rule that Lookout’s don’t get Midori’s bonus? Then patrol slots just work like any other effect…
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It’s all good! Thankfully it’s a situation that’s unlikely to matter too often (probably Blue vs Red if a Doubleshot Archer comes out is most likely), and there’s a logical reason for it to work the way it does (even if it doesn’t immediately make sense). Of course, if someone saw this on a hypothetical online version they’d think the game was bugged… Perhaps the ideal solution would be an errata/ruling that says something like “This ability ignores the ATK bonus from the Elite slot.” Functionally it wouldn’t do anything that isn’t covered by the existing rules, but it would curtail a lot of questions about that.
Edit: Now that I see Jadiel’s post, is there anything else broken by making Lookout unable to get Midori’s bonus and letting patrol bonuses be “normal”?
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In the realm of it being unlikely, you could also point out that if any red player gets all the way to tech 2 against the blue starter, they’re probably just toying with them… Haha
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So, in other words, patrol slot bonuses simply don’t trigger a reevaluation of which units Musketeer/Midori ability bonuses apply to? But, presumably, applying modifiers from other sources does (e.g. by casting Forest’s Favor on Musketeer)? In which case, surely there are some actions or circumstances that could force a reevaluation of Musketeer/Midori ability bonuses after those units have locked in as patrollers, which would cause the Long-Range or +1/+1 to stop applying until the controlling player declared patrollers again on their next turn?
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Especially Fire Tech II instead of the more aggressive Blood or the stronger Anarchy Tech III…
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My guess is that it has been decided that units in Lookout should benefit from Midori’s bonus, and so @sharpobject is endeavoring to make rulings consistent with that decision.
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This is interesting considering Wandering Mimic.
Opponent patrols a 3 power attacker in Elite.
Opponent’s Behind the Ferns gives the 3 power patroller Stealth.
Opponents Mimic gets stealth from the 3 power patroller.
Elite makes it 4 power patroller.
Result:
4 power patroller with stealth & mimic with stealth.
Note: In general It seems that Wandering Mimic should apply after this ‘patrol zone layer’; it doesn’t change the above, but could if it were a different ability.
I have wandering mimic before patrol bonuses, but I don’t think it ever matters.
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I don’t think anything would break really.
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I think @Coiser is arguing that, intuitively, one would think that if player A has a 3/3 and Behind The Ferns, and player B has a Wandering Mimic, player A might think that they could patrol their 3/3 in the elite slot to prevent player B’s Mimic from gaining stealth, but they’d be wrong.
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Yeah, this is one of those ‘you didn’t know a non-intuitive rule’ scenarios.
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