Absolutely irrelevant nerf to Demonology, one of the most oppressive specs in the game.
Maybe so. I am not against a nerf to Dark Pact. But I absolutely do not want to go too far and overnerf.
I’d only support a change set that hits something of the clear dominant strategies and gives a little help to the clearly lowest tier. We have been playing for 5 years, and we collectively have a good handle that:
- Deteriorate, Dark Pact and Lich’s Bargain are all among the most played cards
- Gunship is absurdly above every other tech 3 in the game
- MoLaC lacks counterplay for a wide swath of decks
- Purple/Peace’s economy of scale is oppressive
- Law is perhaps the least played spec, second only to Bashing
I’d be fine leaving out Bashing and Law to start, and I’m fine considering different changes to Purple/Peace (maybe the right answer is battle suits?) and MoLaC (maybe no haste? maybe lower buff? maybe higher cost?)
But the “minimal list” you have together there @Bryce_The_Rice reads more like the “I’m sick of Black” list than the actually address balance list to me. There are three clear dominant strategies, not just Black. Dark Pact and Deteriorate also absolutely deserve to get hit. I think we can collectively agree Deteriorate and DP are still strong cards at 1 gold cost. Black can hang w/ those changes still.
2 Likes
Hey man, I was pushing for a MoLaC change, but we couldn’t come to a consensus. And yeah, I probably hate black more than any other colour/deck, but what are you gonna do. I’m also nerfing gunship.
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I’d prefer to reduce the numbers on MoLaC and to slow Bird’s Nest down over the changes Penatronic proposed, but either way I agree with Bomber that we need more testing first.
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First change I proposed was just reducing molac numbers, actually. Was trying to go with the flow in sticking to what you guys had previously agreed upon.
@Dreamfire How would you slow down birds nest? Increase gold to 3?
I would propose something like this, taking into account recent discussion and trying to reduce the total # of changes for simplicity’s sake.
| Nerfs | |
|---|---|
| Garth | Reduce midband stats to 2/3 |
| MoLaC | Change +5/+5 to +2/+2 |
| Lich’s Bargain | Base dame increased from 4 to 6 |
| Pirate Gunship | Remove obliterate 2 |
| Deteriorate | Increase cost to 1 |
| Dark Pact | Increase cost to 1 |
| Flagstone Garrison | Cost increased from 3 to 4 |
| Bird’s Nest | Sacrifice birds when birds nest leaves play |
| Buffs | |
|---|---|
| Troq | Swap midband and maxband |
| Mid at 4 and max at 7 | |
| new text: Select one of the following: | |
| - Destroy a Tech 0 AND a Tech 1 unit | |
| - Move an enemy hero to level 1 | |
| - Destroy an Upgrade or Ongoing Spell |
Is MoLaC mostly considered too strong because of its interactions in Miracle Grow? Is it easier to prepare for if going straight for Gunships is less likely?
Also, I don’t think Law is the least-played non-Bashing spec, it’s sometimes used for Insurance Agent abuse / Injunction. The least used would probably be Ninjitsu or Disease. If we’re talking about monocolour choices for Tech II, then in that case I’d agree.
1 Like
Fully agree with Frozen only the top strategies should be buffed at first (nightmare, miracle growth and purple peace). If there is another dominant strategy afterwards, it can be done in a second round. My suggestions:
Nightmare: DP +1g, Det +1g, Garth mid 2/3, Lichs Bargain 4->6, Vandy without resist 1
Miracle Growth: Gunship without obliterate, Molac (I liked the Molac nerf from our tourney, since it is mainly punishing the combination with anarchy, not the card), birds removed when nest leaves play
Purple Peace: I would like to throw in again battle suits: “your purple soldiers and mystics get +1ATK”. Battle suits is just too strong if all your units in the deck get +1ATK (+ thin the deck and difficult to remove). So far no one has shown me a dominant deck with garrision and drill s. besides purple starter.
Buffs I am fine with anything just that more cards get played. If too strong they can be changed again.
3 Likes
Molac, you weren’t explicit on which nerf you were thinking? The one with no units in play = no runes that we just used? I’m ok with this becoming the standard.
Birds nerf seems a bit overkill, i’d prefer this change go to round 2 of changes.
Battle suits change is basically a hard nerf to purple/peace, i’d be surprised if it was still a midtier option after that. also prefer this one go to round 2.
The rest seem to have consensus.
2 Likes
Yes, the one we just used. I think it is the best one because for other decks it is often no nerf at all.
Understand your point regarding birds. I just hate that some starters and tech1 decks cannot really do anything against flying, so the only answer is a tower, which is not ideal either.
I’d change it to read:
Upkeep: Re-summon one lost bird (limit: 2).
1 Like
Monocolour or multicolour?
This one also sounds nice for me
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Multicolour. Neutral, red, green starter have nothing, white not really either. So if you don’t have present, feral, anarchy in your deck you need a tower. Some spells like discord can help as well. So killing rook, that the birds die as well is for me the best option.
I don’t really see that as a problem, it’s just something to consider when constructing a deck. Plenty more specs than that have options at Tech I, just not via anti-air units.
1 Like
Consensus nerfs around these:
Dark pact costs 1g
Deteriorate costs 1g
Garth midband stats changed to 2/3
Lich’s Bargain deals 6 damage to base
Vandy loses resist 1
Pirate Gunship loses obliterate 2
Might of Leaf and Claw changed to add “If you have no units in play, remove all runes from this”
Please heart this post if you do not object to any of these changes. Everyone has more changes they would like to see, but is this list broadly accepted as a starting point?
8 Likes
I think the vandy nerf should either be changed or dropped, for the sake of simplicity. I just don’t think it is relevant enough to change text.
I’d argue that nerf should be kept for simplicity, since it’s actually decently common for people to forget she has it in the first place and there have been several tournament turns over the years that have had to be significantly changed because of that.
5 Likes
Vandy nerf should stay, it is documented as being left on by mistake. And minor should not be an argument against a nerf.
8 Likes