If this would help, why should it replace Charged Shot instead of Knee Bash?
The arrow is so large that you can’t block or jump over it. But it takes awhile to charge up that you can walk up and throw them. Charging up to power level 9000 and all that.
Or you could just do what MJ said and rename it.
Because It would be nice if Jaina had more blocks.
I mean, “Charged Shot cannot be blocked or dodged” is pretty parsimonious, word-wise. Leaving it as an attack would mean that it would beat faster throws (not sure if that’s a good thing), and win ties with equally sped throws (again, not sure if it’s a good thing). I’m not sure if there’s anything else that hinges on the attack/throwness of the move.
EDIT: I guess the grapplers would be pretty unhappy about that, actually.
Assuming he’s interested in sharing them, I would be very interested in @JonnyD sharing his thoughts on Jaina as a character as a whole and her easiest/toughest MUs. If he has specific changes he think would be helpful to the character, that would be rad too.
It would be helpful in general if the people in this thread with significant experience playing Jaina could do the MU discussion piece, because that would help focus people’s attention/suggestions on what elements of her kit could be tweaked to cover the holes without giving her an accidental 9-1 somewhere.
Since it’s on topic, this is @jonnyd’s big jaina post from a while ago (more than 650 posts since!)
Back then we had both suggested very similar things were wrong with Jaina and wanted very similar solutions (fast J to 2.4 speed, slow J slightly stronger and KD but slower, Knee Bash to 3CP starter, Q to 0.0 speed, innate to 2HP/rebuy for non-Q/A). I’m still of the mind that these changes would help her while keeping her mostly the same.
a huge post, be prepared
Awesome! It had indeed been so many posts ago that I forgot it happened. XD Sweet.
One thing that’s missing is a list of match-ups she’s advantaged in, if she has any, and why. Could you take a shot at a short set of paragraphs?
A very good post. I don’t think Charged Shot should KD, and I think giving her 90 HP is safer than reducing Burning Vigor to 2 damage/card (but that might still turn out to be a good idea.)
I also like that her Q isn’t 0.0 speed, to be honest, particularly since she has both Q and single A as reversal options. I’ve come to agree that it should deal more damage though. 9+6 maybe?
Changing her 7s one way or another seems to be gaining popularity.
To summarize – if we’re going back to less drastic, more incremental changes to Jaina, here are the ones I favor:
- Increase HP to 90, Burning Desperation from 40. Maybe reduce Burning Vigor damage to 2.
- Knee Bash becomes a 3 CP starter.
- Move 7* to 9* (if she’s pinched on throws and blocks, let’s make sure she can use her good ones.)
- Nudge up the stats on J and Q as follows.
J: Charged Shot 4.8 speed, 2 CP Starter, 9(8) damage.
Flame Arrow 2.4 speed, 1 CP Ender, 7(6) damage.
(I don’t think Charged Shot should knock down, but I think it should clash with grappler 4 attacks. That’s also twice the speed of Flame Arrow which is good flavor. Conversely I think Flame Arrow should be a proper fireball. I don’t like Flame Trap as an ability, that’s Grave’s trick.)
Q: Dragonheart 0.2 speed, +Any, 3 CP Ender, 9+6 (2) damage.
I would be willing to talk about making her 6 an A/B, rewriting 7* etc. but if we’re going to be conservative, I think the best way is to run with what she already has and just tune it a little higher.
Is there a reason we haven’t considered just making Jaina’s K 2.2 speed? That alone would improve her match up against Geiger, Arg, and Setsuki, which @JonnyD says are 3 of her worst MUs.
Mostly just caution I think. Recurring a 2.2 combo starter has the potential to be really oppressive against a lot of the cast.
I’ll try at least, though she doesn’t have a lot of advantaged match-ups. The ones I think she does well in are the ones where she can use her normals in neutral and where her A stops the opponent doing what they need to do:
I think she has a good time vs Quince. She obviously outclasses him in attack speeds, she has an additional throw faster than K spin compared to a lot of characters, and if she’s standing she has 7* to guarantee breaking his vortex.
Valerie really hates Jaina’s Q/A DP barrage. Probably more than any other character Jaina can consistently deny Val her 1.0 speed normal starters and aces.
Jaina can also abuse Q/A here to keep Gwen on the back foot. Gwen is the only character with potentially less life than Jaina so the advantage is definitely on Jaina’s side.
Jaina’s A can put a lot of work in denying Rock Armor, and J/5 are particularly brual at chipping away while periodically letting her combo if she catches a throw. Rook really needs to play hunker down and play Block/Special Block/AA/AAAA, hoping Jaina doesn’t undercut his AA with Q/AA.
I might be tempted to add to the list, because she can play her 2 and 3 in neutral and can option select his dK/dQ mixup. I suspect he has a lot more counter play than I’ve typically seen though, providing he plays for 10* and FDP mixups. Not played this one enough to be certain.
Interestingly is not on my list. Yes Jaina has the advantage vs normals heavy BBB, but his A and AA are super strong Vs Jaina and her low HP. I think it’s fairly close to even just on account of those options.
Probably to stop her kerb stomping tbh. Giving Jaina all game access to a 2.2 speed attack would make her better at fast pokes than the poking character.
I’ve said this before but I think this mu is too close to even. It ends in draws like 30-40% of the time, lol.
Which is a pity, because if Flame Arrow could in good conscience be a 2.2 speed attack that would be a very elegant way to get a fireball spam character, in a way that’s notably different from Lightning Trap.
Because of vendetta, the best we could do with her existing innate would be to make it 2.4 speed and then give it an ability where it beats all other 2.4 speed attacks. Since 2.4 is fireball speed we would be making it the best “fireball”, but its kind of clunky and I don’t know that it really helps her that much. Certainly not against Zane or setsuki.
Yeah, I don’t think that would work.
I don’t think a sane grappler plays a 4 attack against Jaina no matter what speed it is, so long as she has the ability to buy back her attacks. Getting blown up by a fast normal or K is just too risky. Gameplan remains block and reversal until super, then try to dodge into super (or play special blocks, for Rook).
I am the guy who once played 8 attack on wakeup in the Troq mirror, so maybe I shouldn’t be talking about grappler valuation…