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Yomi-O's now with 200% more fireballs (v3 wishlist)


#749

Ryker’s silly, but cool suggestion for Rook for comboing into CMB. ( @wampuh )

CMB now a 3 CP Ender.

10 Attack now has a new special ability.
Discard 2 cards of the same suit to make this card 0 CPs.

So 10 Attack CMB is 60 damage, but costs 7 cards. With Rook armors its 9. (4 of which have to be the same suit as 10.)

You could theoretically land. 10>J>10>J>10>J>10 for 52, but that’d require 15 cards without Rook armor and 17 with Rook Armor. (2 cards of the same suit each or 4 with the leading 10 on Rook Armor.)


#750

Maybe find a way to give that to 3rd Edition EX Rook, lol. Definitely too janky and powerful for the normal game, but I could see that being fun to play around with in the EX ecosystem!


#751

3rd edition EX characters “hold my beer”


#752

Being totally serious, I want each successive edition of Yomi to just up the power level of the EX characters. No nerfs, only buffs.


#753

Its interesting that we have 2 versions of Gwen here, that both sound pretty good. I suppose we shouldn’t be so surprised since the podcast makes it clear that they started with two concepts and mashed them together. The first was “make a character inspired by MtG necropotence” (losing life to draw cards) and other was “do an alternative rushdown build inspired by GG’s Chipp”.

In @cpat’s version we have a change to her Shadow Plague Innate, so that she only draws cards (say 2) when she hits the opponent and only takes damage if she fails to do so (say 3 damage to balance the 2 cards).

This works *really* well with her Relentless Strikes innate which I love. I would argue that this is focused more strongly on her rushdown side (it even increases her card flow).

In @fenixoftheashes’s version we have her Shadow Plague innate kept the same but her Relentless Strikes ability swapped for a really cool sweet cryomancer innate that slows her opponent down whenever one of her newly defined Icy Touch moves hit or are blocked.

It’s nice to see that both these innate changes make Q good, both of you want to see J become scarier and both suggested an 8HP heal for Gloria’s Remedy.

Now, I’m not so interested in rejigging her whole kit to the level of detail @cpat proposed, but with these two innate ideas we could design two version of Gwen with approximately the same other cards, Cryomancer Gwen and Zombie/Beserker/Plague Warrior Gwen. My head cannon would be that in the latter she fully embraces/succumbs to the dark side of the Shadow Plague and so gets stronger but more aggressive.

Maybe this could be an extra box of Gwen vs B/Z. Gwen (for Beserker/Zombie Gwen - I’m as yet undecided which I prefer imagery wise) or we could even design a Fire and Ice box with A. Jaina (Anarchist) Vs B/Z. Gwen (Beserker/Zombie Gwen).

This all to say that I think both ideas show merit. Probably Cryomancer Gwen is closest to the initial brief of “make the flip side of Gloria based on Necropotence, with rushdown elements” but I also really like Relentless Strikes as an ability and wouldn’t want to throw it away when we have precedent for alternative character decks.


#754

The Gwen changes that I think seem generally agreeable are:

10* Gloria’s Remedy [During Combat]
When you block an attack or Joker with this card, take no block damage, discard this card, and don’t draw a card from blocking. Gain 6 8 life.

J* Chillbane [During Combat]
When you hit with Chains of Ice, freeze the opponent (they skip all decisions and cannot trigger any abilities for they would make the rest of the turn). Next turn, their attacks and throws are 2 speed slower.

AAA Dreadlands Portal
22 damage —> 25 damage

I also really like

2-attack —> 2-attack Frost Slash
2 damage —> 4(2) damage


#755

Random Vendetta ideas?

J from 2.4 speed to 2.2 Speed. Damage reduced from 8+4+4+4 to 8+4+4 This is to help his neutral, but let him be less explosive on his good matchups.

Q from 3.0 Speed to 2.2 Speed.

AA to 18 to 16 damage.

Add an innate that lets him recover his dodges on combat wins. I feel like this would help his matchups where he’s bad at, but shouldn’t terribly help the matches he’s good at. (except Midori.)

Reasoning: I feel like Vendetta recurring dodges would help his matchups where its annoying to just dodge reversals. (Grave, Valerie,Lum.) He functionally has less dodges than his distribution due to how valuable Acrobatics is. I feel like it fits with his design of making K loops a bit more devastating and actually real.

-Winning combat I think is completely fair. Dodging Blocks is still a combat loss.

-Making his face cards faster speeds makes them more useful as combat reveals and makes Q567 more real. J IMO should beat fireballs.

-K Loops are probably one of his most fun tools Vendetta side.

However this really helps some of his slightly advantaged matchups like Argagarg. So I feel like reducing some of his already amazing/consistent /w J damage output should help.

The dodge innate doesn’t really help him against Rook, Quince, Troq, Midori, but I feel like he beats Quince horribly. Rook is slight advantaged. Troq evenish. Midori slight disadvantaged.

This will be really relevant against Grave, Valerie, Lum Argagarg, Jaina, Menelker. Grave/Valerie/Lum are very disadvantaged. Argagarg is slight advantaged. Jaina/Menelker are about even. I think the only reason Menelker is even is because of his insane damage output and Jaina is cool with more dodges so I think it evens out.

He might destroy Argagarg now with his more consistent neutral tools. Onimaru might also lose slightly with his linear gameplan.

Persephone I think prefers a damage nerf to Vendetta.

Gwen/Setsuki I think it helps with their attack gameplan. Those matchups are pretty much just throw duff so I feel like more neutral tools make the matches more interactive, but they might actually prefer the damage nerf due to their HP pools.

Gloria I think prefers slightly less explosive damage.

Zane probably prefers less explosive damage.

BBB might lose slightly, but Q is still amazing on KD long range.


#756

I really like idea of Vendetta getting more 2.2 speed attacks. Buff Q to 2.2 is the obvious choice imo. I’m not so sure that he needs 2, Q *and* J at 2.2 since I really think Arg (and others) would struggle with that level of 2.2 speed oppression and his damage potential, but maybe it does work with J at 8+4+4 and AA to 16 to reduce his burst damage a little. Certainly having 3x 2.2 speed options, one of which can recurr seems to be on flavour with a poking character.

I also like kind of like this idea because it would buff his neutral play against characters that like to spam DPs, and it lets him vortex more consistently. He would probably need a damage nerf to K to balance if he can sustain it infinitely, and I’m not sure how people will take to that. I worry he’d be too strong with this buff if not tested very carefully.

This would probably be in the world where Junkshot is 3.0 speed to give the grapplers a slightly better time at range. In this world Ven would have 2/7/J/Q to use against it when he’s KD. BBB probably prefers Normal/K as his mix-up here I’d say, with Dodge entering play if BBB doesn’t have a K or surgical strike is confirmed real.


#757

I’m still going to push for a sub-1.0 speed King. I think buffing 2s damage is kind of a change for the sake of change decision, so I’m not a fan.


#758

I’m still not necessarily that pro this idea, but maybe K to 0.6 speed would work? Rook is pretty good against her for a bunch of reasons (like having 100HP while she’s slowly dying), but having a safe 0.8 speed AA is a big one.

The other one I worry about is Midori’s dQ. I think this K would need to at least tie with it. (I don’t even know how that match-up goes in practice, but I feel like Dragon Midori winning combat probably means Gwen just dies)

I still have a bunch of reservations about this change though, I think a sub 1.0 starter feels like we’re getting close to Setsuki territory.


#759

Okay, if a fast starter is too much like Setsuki then give her Q a copy of the J ability. Gwen needs a way to get in against people playing 1.2 speed moves or faster if you don’t want her playing AAA/dodge games. To be clear though, I don’t mind her playing AAA/dodge games, because if there’s ever a character that has struggled with having a Plan B, it’s Gwen.


#760

puts his lips really close to the microphone Replace Rook’s 9 throw with a 9 attack.

This does a lot of good stuff for him:

  1. Better payoff of J (J9T for 23 damage compared to J78 for 19), with a lot of back-loaded damage that can be used to bait jokers, making his late game better.
  2. More opportunities for straights, especially Rock Armor straights, with higher payoff (89T for 27 damage compared to 678 for 21). Rock armor could use a bit of a boost.
  3. His 9 is currently a block 99% of the time.
  4. Gives him a nice coinflip guessing game against KD opponents which is kind of needed. Rook loves straights a lot, which puts a lot of pressure on his use of 7s, and his 5s are really important in the end-game, so most of the time, blocking even is free for his opponents.
  5. Big H I T T I E S

#761

circles point #5 several times in red marker


#762

TRIES TO KEEP LIKING BUT ITS ONLY LETTING ME DO IT ONE TIME


#763

I’m opening an IT ticket with the Discourse software folks to address this issue.


#764

Oh man I want 9JT / 10J9 to be a threatening KD mix-up so bad

Why is it not already this way :disappointed:


#765

It makes him even more “do mean shit to people on wake-up,” I think. (1) Real even/odd Rock Armor mix-up, (2) J9T (sometimes at 1.0 speed off 3-block), (3) AA to undercut 1.0 speed wake-up, (4) CMB to punish a scared opponent, (5) block their wake-up Gold Burst because they don’t want to deal with any of that.


#766

(6) New 3* to put them back on their terrified ass even if they GB


#767

…I might play that version of Rook over Troq, tbh.


#768

Well that’s settled then. Change confimed :wink: