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Yomi-O's now with 200% more fireballs (v3 wishlist)


You fucking meme lord



I was knocking around ideas for letting lum retrieve 10s from deck(not discard). It’s a complete flavour fail unless it’s based on randomness like @Attilian’s mention of tweaking roll of the dice. I’ll admit to basically knowing nothing about Lum, but countering counters with increased access* to 10s might be a good path? How is lums MUs against other characters with counters?

*This assumes the increased access is small, inconsistent, and still limits him to four per game except Vs Arg


I would be honored to talk at cross purposes if it helps save you guys from yourselves.


Sorry, what was the reasoning for the nerf to Gloria’s Q-throw being able to only pump with J/Q/K? That doesn’t seem warranted to me.


I still feel like messing with Jackpot has the potential to be worse than just slightly increasing Lum’s damage off throws. Oni vs DeGrey/Arg isn’t going to be a 4.5 MU just from giving him an extra throw, but it’s a scootch. I’m happy just giving Lum a scootch.


Does anyone feel strongly one way or the other about Dreadlands Portal to 25 damage?


I don’t know about “feel strongly” but it seems like a good change to me. Although I realize the reasons why you don’t want Gwen’s aces to be too devastating, I’ve always wondered why it was deemed necessary for Dreadlands Portal to be less efficient than single A in terms of damage per card.


It was probably to increase the possibility of setting up checkmates vs. her to prevent her from being too powerful? That’s just a guess though. She gets checkmated quite a bit, though, so it probably wouldn’t be too bad to give her a little top-up.


Maybe @cpat can provide some additional insight. My understanding was that, during testing, it was felt that Gwen gameplay revolved too much around getting aces and playing throw-super/dodge games for a rushdown character?

Imo, that seems like a pretty good game plan that would allow her to deal just slightly better against her current problem MUs (anyone with a lot of DPs at speed 1 or faster) without altering her MUs against other characters which she can play a more traditional attack/throw range against.


As a BONUS, if she has this gameplan where she can credibly do a lot of dodging, her J starter maybe gets a bit more successful as a throw-punish.


I’m not 100% sure if this was the case (the changes were made to prevent this, but I’m not sure if it actually happened), but yes as a lot of people have pointed out, Gwen’s Aces have to be bad as far as damage efficiency goes because of her card draw. This is especially true because the rest of her kit has rather low damage/card (4 damage/pump on Q and K, Relentless Strikes, etc.). Her super was always been a 4.6 speed throw, but it had its damage hilariously decreased as testing continued (55/4 -> 45/3 -> 33/3 -> 30/3 -> 27/3 -> 22/3).

That said, 25 damage Dreadlands Portal seems alright. If we are looking to buff Gwen (which we should), it should not be only on her Aces because we don’t want a character that powers up a lot and aims for the dodge/throw mixup that MJ alluded to.


The alternative could be to push her fully towards her rushdown archetype and make her Q a 3 CP starter, instead of what it is now.


I like that her DP is not also a starter, it creates an interesting Yomi triangle. I think it’s better to make her 10s heal more or her Ks deal more damage, if we’re spitballing Gwen buffs.


Can you elaborate? It seems to me that it kind of makes her a bad footsies character, more than a rushdown character.


This is more of a personal change than anything else. It’s weird that the Shadow Plague damages her but also inherently gives her an extra card per turn. What I would propose is she takes 2-3 damage/turn if she is unable to hit the opponent during combat. This second bit is slightly different, but I would also like to see her draw cards if she hits the opponent (that seems rushdowny to me) instead of innately, so I propose that if she does hit the opponent, she draws 1-2 cards at the end of combat or something. Obviously, she probably needs to be reworked (especially if she draws two cards), but I think this creates a more interesting Gwen.


Well, if her 0.0 Q was also a Starter, then like Setsuki’s Queen, it would be a really oppressive move in a lot of MU and create more 50/50s. As it is, besides her riskier, higher-payoff Chains of Ice and slow normals, Gwen has her 2s and Ks as fast starters which will beat most of what her opponents are doing (sometimes even including Block, because of Relentless Strikes) but will lose to DPs, meaning she has to respect opposing DPs and, unlike Setsuki, doesn’t have a "if [card] then [card] safe, go-to starter. The fact that she’s on a timer, and that she only has one rank of cards with 0.x speed, means that Gwen has to treat her Q as a valuable resource -she’s not happy losing combat with it obviously, but even winning with it when a slower attack would have also won is usually a missed opportunity and a strategic loss, because that would lead to much more damage and leave her still having the Q in hand -it’s pretty much entirely a counterpoke.

This to me is a really interesting mind/valuation game. You can argue that it’s too much of a vulnerability and makes her too weak, but in that case I would rather find some other way to work around the issue, or if you must, make the Queen deal more damage so it’s a better “consolation prize”, because I feel like removing this consideration makes her play much less interesting.


Imo, Gwen Q is currently not really a move. As you mentioned, most of the time it is not even that positive an outcome for her to win combat with it.

Too many characters can force her into a place where she needs to dodge to deal damage, because they can play moves that lose to Q (taking meaningless amounts of damage), but beat 2 and K.

So, one way to prevent her from getting DP spammed, is to improve her dodge payoff (hence buffing her super-throw). The other is to improve her ability to deal with DPs by giving her a faster starter.

“Improve the damage of her Q” is basically what I’m suggesting. Just in a rush-downy way instead of a “make it deal marginally more damage” way. Until you can lose a game by getting hit by Q, there’s no reason to play around it.


Oh, while we’re talking about her, Gwen’s J starter should freeze Zane’s Crash Bomb and prevent it from exploding.


I don’t necessarily disagree, but how do you do that in a way that’s not egregiously targeted and doesn’t have a lot of less salubrious knock-on effects?


Sorry, to clarify is this in reference to my post about Gwen’s J or her Q?