I’m curious about the answer as well. I suspect Duck is part of it, since it’s mere arrival could close out a game if they’re low on HP. But I might guess that being able to bring Stompers/Reapers directly into play with Garth is pretty valuable, too.
Bashing Tech 2 is very nice with Garth. And also Iron Man.
2 Likes
I think Bashing has the better targets for Necro Hero max band ability than Finesse does. That’s why I have looked more seriously at Bashing than Finesse when trying to combo with Demon/Necro.
Yay a use for bashing!
Of course. I don’t know why I didn’t consider Garth’s maxband, since it’s one of the best things about the whole Necro spec (not to say there aren’t others-- as I’ve said elsewhere, Necro is generally one of my favorite specs, maybe my single favorite). I did think about Iron Man, but I actually am inclined to think that Finesse is a better tech 1 complement to Necro/Disease than Bashing is. Iron man makes good trades, to be sure, but while Necro/Disease lacks a 3/4 for 3, it’s already got 3 different options for a 3/3 for 2, and Plague Spitter is a 3-cost tech 1 that trades well with bigger things, though I think it’s definitely a more defensive option than a 3/4. When it comes to trading well on offense, Bone Collector gives fantastic value for 2 gold. Bashing tech 1 feels a bit like more of the same, whereas haste adds an entirely new dimension to the codex. Now that you mention Garth’s maxband, though, I do see the value of Bashing tech II with Necro, though I must say that I think Grounded Guide is a spectacular Garth Maxband grab (skeletons love global buffs, and the Virtuoso synergy is tremendous if you went with fencers in tech 1).
In general, I think Disease probably synergizes better with Finesse than with Bashing, due mostly to River’s spells (Discord + Orpal maxband seems really strong, especially if you throw an Abomination or a Plague Lab into the mix, and Two Step looks really pretty on Plague Spitters and Abominations), but also partly due to Tech I haste and Blademaster (a minor concern, I admit, but the only thing that combos better with swift strike than damage as -1/-1s is Deathtouch, and Disease has 3 things with one or the other, two of which don’t require a Tech Lab). That being said, you’re probably right that [Bashing]/Disease/Necro is stronger than [Finesse]/Disease/Necro, because the Necro/Bashing synergy is probably a bit stronger than the Finesse/Disease synergy. [Finesse]/Demon/Disease seems like it’s probably the strongest option for a black/neutral combo including Disease, though.
@Raiddinn, I have to disagree about picking Bashing over Finesse with Demon/Necro. Bashing and Necro may synergize well, but Finesse and Demonology synergize amazingly well (Harmony/Dark Pact, Discord/Terras Q or Twilight Baron, Two Step+basically any 2 Demonology units, etc.). I don’t think I’m going out on a limb here, since [Demon]/Necro/Finesse is considered top-tier (which I imagine is why you mentioned your preference for Bashing), but I’ll go one step further: if I were going to play around with that codex, I’d be more likely to swap out Necro than I would Finesse. Even if I wanted to keep it mono-colored, I think I prefer [Finesse]/Demon/Disease or [Demon]/Finesse/Disease or even [Finesse]/Demon/Bashing (in that order) over either [Bashing]/Demon/Necro or [Demon]/Necro/Bashing. The one caveat I will give to all of this is that Troq is a somewhat better target for Metamorphosis than River, but River is still fine, and a better hero in general, so the difference isn’t worth what you give up.
Edit: apologies for the wall of text. I can get a little long winded sometimes, even (especially?) when I don’t entirely know what I’m talking about, which is admittedly the case here.
2 Likes
I am not going to claim to be an expert player. I generally like Finesse in probably 95% of combinations where I need one of the two neutral decks to be included.
I would say that giving up Disease and it’s tier 1 units is pretty painful and that you need a lot of compensation for it. I just don’t like what Finesse Tech 1 adds then. Fencers are a great unit, I just am not so enthusiastic about them along with what else is there in Demon/Necro.
I did try playing with Demon/Necro/Finesse before and my Terras Q / Discord combo got wrecked so maybe that has to do with my feelings on the matter.
In mono black, the hero I like most as P1 is Demon and as P2 it’s Necro. I would be most quick to drop disease and use that opening to include something that has reasonable tech 1s and a solid Necro reanimation target. Keeping out the multi-color penalties, that would mean me going with Bashing.
Maybe some other reasons eclipse my reasons in terms of win/loss. I haven’t played Demon/Necro/Bashing and Demon/Necro/Finesse enough to know which I actually win with most often over the board in a large sample size.
I assign zero value to the Tech III unit when deciding which specs to use, unless it’s Gunship, Ebbflow, Octavian, or any of the Gryphons. Even then, it’s a minor consideration.
1 Like
Care to unpack that a bit? Gunship and Ebbflow make Anarchy and Past more attractive. Octavian makes Present less attractive? I can see Liberty Griffon potentially makes Truth more attractive, but neither of the others are either particularly strong or weak?
1 Like
The other two are too weak to be worth building a Tech III, also the Discipline Monument belong on the “not worth it” list. That’s really the bucketing: Is the Tech III good enough to claw you out from being significantly behind, or too weak to be worth building a Tech III for (just spend the gold on more Tech II stuff / heroes). Most Tech IIIs are somewhere in between, where they are strong enough to tip a game at parity, or lock up one where you are ahead, and it doesn’t really matter if you’re using Trojan Duck, Blademaster, Oathkeeper, or a T-Rex to do it.
2 Likes
Yes, that makes more sense. I think the only other one I’d propose for the ‘not worth it’ category is Moss Ancient…
Isn’t there a bit of a “my tech III beats your tech III” component to it, though? For instance T-Rex and Zarramonde can both remove an opponent’s win condition (tech III or something else like e.g. MoLaC). Does this not enter into your consideration?
Also, what’s wrong with Octavian? Lack of restistance or untargetable?
Edit: probably not that, I suppose, since there are 6 tech 3’s without some form of targeting protection (Bashing, Finesse, Blood, Ninjitsu, Past, Present) and one of those (Past) is very strong.
Do I take it then, that you have revised your views on Law and Blood Tech IIIs?
1 Like
I agree! Purples upgrade to soilders attack plus the 4 free units from tech 1 purple and tech 1 blue. Combine that with drill Sargent adding plus 1/1 for each unit played from your hand then get building allows you to draw a card for each unit played from your hand. You could almost roll through your whole deck and have a massive army on the board with either spread out runes or one buff drill Sargent. Oh btw you can play 2 drill sargents to double that up. 100% crazy roll out. I didn’t have room for all my cards. GG,
I have played many games with this deck in the past.
I don’t know if you could still find them though.
Has any one tried and had success with a Blood/Law combo? They seem to compliment each other nicely. Drakk’s abilities seem to take the Law units to the next level. A Scribe with Frenzy sounds like a super solid unit and a Frenzy Hasted Justice Juggernaut sounds terrifying.
Then on the flip Bigby can seemingly do a lot for Blood. Judgment Day into Crashbarrows could do work and with the draw on Bigby and the draw from Scribes while also providing defense can help you keep up that suicide offense.
The build has maximum unit steal. Drakk can steal units in play and Bigby can steal units from hand/discard.
Who would work well as the third spec? I was thinking Feral. This would provide a good early offense hero, access to the Green starter, AA, more Drakk synergy in the form of 2/1 frogs, 5/4 stealth Tigers, and Hasted Rampaging Elephants. A hasted Moss Ancient would be pretty hilarious as well, got to use up all the squirrel tokens to turn the MA drops.
I’m pretty out of the loop because PBF isn’t my bag so maybe this is a common combo and I’m just saying things every one already knows? Maybe people tried it and it didn’t work well? But what do you think of the Blood/Law combo and the [Feral]/Blood/Law deck?
4 Likes
I’ve considered peace/blood because a tech lab garrison perfectly solves the real weakness in Bloods suicidal offense: card draw. Scribes and insurance agents might be an acceptable alternative.
1 Like
The free units in Purple are Knight of the Conclave, right?
Since they have Forecast, do they even count as “played from hand” to trigger Drill Sergeant/Garrison? I couldn’t find anything in the Ruling thread.
Yes. You can compare/contrast Drill Sergeant to Blooming Ancient, from Growth (who triggers on “when a unit or hero arrives”. If you have both in play, and you play a Knight of the Conclave from your hand, the Drill Sergeant gets a +1 rune. Then, when the Knight arrives, Blooming Ancient gets a +1 rune.
3 Likes
I got to play 6 games of [Feral],Law,Blood today and it seems like there is some serious potential to this deck. All games were played against [Necro],Blood,Truth.
Early aggro with Cala seems effective as ever, there’s a really nice assortment of tech I to chose from. Law stall with green slowness has some nice synergy. Quite a few good spells for Jurisdiction to pick from.
Unfortunately what would have been my most exciting turn of the set for me was thwarted by Free Speech (I strongly dislike that card). The turn would have been max band Drakk into Rampaging Elephant to either destroy both tech buildings or bring base down to 2.
Another really good potential turn was thwarted by tech II destruction. And I was really looking forward to Feral Strike into double Justice Juggernaut too.
There’s some cool stuff here. Really enjoying the deck so far though and looking forward to playing it more.
2 Likes