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What characters are good at teaching specific things

This is inspired from my learning under @Legion and @migohunter at Yomi. Without them I wouldn’t be as knowledgeable as I am at the game.

How to Throw:

Throwing is something you do, but when/how is important. It can take a lot of patience and normally is the riskiest of the Yomi triangle.

:rook:
Rook IMO is the best character to learn to throw with. His attack speeds are very slow, but his throws are highly efficient. He also can’t dodge so you have to learn how to set up his Super. While Rook is not a top tier character and probably one of the worst when I play as him, the fundamentals he teaches is ridiculous.
:troq: :midori:
I put Troq/ Midori as also strong characters to learn to throw with. They usually have dominant throws. Troq has the more flexible gameplan and you’ll learn to zone more with him than Midori. With Midori you’ll learn how to punish more effectively.
:quince:
I forgot him initially, but he’s slow. Weirdly he can have the dominant throw due to how well he gets his 7.8 throws back and can have a grappler esque gameplan at times. K loops feel more of a valuation/flowchart thing though.
:persephone: :vendetta:
They don’t always the dominant throw, but throwing is such a requirement for them that you’ll learn how to Throw with these characters. Its also their best punishment with Kidney Shot + Wild Ride.

Footsies:
I consider this early game neutral in matchups where people don’t necessarily have oppressive Attack speeds. Usually the early game. The idea also is to throw enough that people try to Throw punish you and you Attack under them. Overlaps a bit with Rushdown.

:onimaru:
Literally this guys gameplan without 9s. His Guard Crush ability is so scary your opponent has to learn to play Normals. You also have all the attacks needed to undercut them.

:menelker: :lum:
Menelker IMO is a Footsies/Zoner character. His early game usually consists of setting up the 2.2 starter with a very scary 7.6 Throw. Lum’s throws are less scary, but his speeds throughout the whole gamestate is footsies.

:zane: :vendetta: :gloria:
Zane is all footsies. Vendetta/Gloria footsies are about setting up 2.2 undercuts, but I think they are a bit more wild than Menelker/Onimaru/Lum.

:valerie:
Its hard to determine whether Valerie is more of a Footsies or a Zoner character. Early game you want to get people to play over a 2.4 with your scary KD throws. Late game getting people to play stuff slower than 1.0 can be tough depending on the matchup.

Throw Punishment:
Generally playing high reward, yet slow attacks to beat Throws. Most of these character teach a Blodge heavy gameplan.

:argagarg: :geiger: :degrey: :midori::quince: :bbb::vendetta:
Getting your opponent to attack into Blodge and duffing Throws with undercuttable Attack Speeds is their gameplan.

:rook: :zane:
Not exactly Rook’s gameplan, but Slow Normals + Rook armor teach a lot. Zane often has hands slower than 2.3.

:grave::menelker::persephone:
Grave/Menelker are more of a Zoner than these characters, but their early game is Throw Punishment. Persephone has to make use of 3.0/4.0 attacks in neutral.

Zoning
Spamming oppressive attack speeds. Overlaps a lot with Rushdown. Probably easiest to learn. Most characters have a way to zone. Fighting AI is a good way to teach this skill.

:grave::jaina::lum::setsuki::gwen::menelker: Ranged :bbb:
Pretty much their gameplans.

:valerie::gloria::geiger::lum::persephone: :troq:
Usually primary/secondary gameplans.

Flowchart/Valuation:
What card should I play. All characters teach this to a high degree. Fighting AI is a fantastic way to teach this skill.

:setsuki::gloria::lum:
For Setsuki/Gloria hands decide what their best options are. Usually a best route. For Lum he’s insanely complicated at a high level.

:quince::persephone:
Not as flowcharty, but they’re really difficult to play making valuation more important.

Yomi Fundamentals in General:
Pretty much anyone except Gloria, Vendetta, Quince and Setsuki are good at teaching gameplans that carry over to everyone else. But the best are probably something like this? Hard to say.

:grave::argagarg::geiger::rook::troq:

5 Likes

Hm, I agree with almost all of this, but not quite with your view of the best fundamental characters.

Argagarg works a lot better on low hand than most characters, due to his efficient damage but low combo potential, and has very strong inevitability that makes him rather unique. Grave has aces that rather warp his game plan (although he can definitely win without TPoS, knowing whether or not to go for it is almost a subgame in its own right for him) And Troq has a lot of concerns that are particular to him (needing blocks for Beast Unleashed, but not being able to build hands with them as well as others) while his moves are so good and efficient that he doesn’t worry so much about things that are important to others - he, too, functions very well at low hand.

I agree with you that Rook and Geiger are very good for demonstrating fundamental Yomi play, and to that list I would add Valerie. She is IMO probably the most fundamental-focused character given how important hand management is for her. Her moves have good properties, but she doesn’t have any of the “shortcuts” that deGrey, Menelker etc. have.

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I agree with your points, but for those very same points i think those characters are easier to learn with. Theres more room for error, but you can learn from your mistakes even if you are less punished for them.

If it makes sense Valerie is probably the better showcase of fundamentals but shes much harder to play as. The stuff you learn as her tends to be more Valerie specific. (2nd hardest of V1 next to Lum IMO)

3 Likes

Agreed. The only character that I can’t play worth a damn. If it wasn’t for the hard CP (i.e. Arg), I would have put some time into him. He can be very good, and many players have limited experience against him.

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I believe you, but how is he complicated exactly?

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First of all I’m not an expert.

At a beginner level his speeds are really good and his straights are very high reward. Also the randomness of his abilities can get you out of bad spots. The reason he isn’t a common beginner pick is just because of how easy the Argagarg/DeGrey counterpicks are to play.

At higher levels he is probably the most “personal accountant” in the game and there’s lots of card counting to know the rewards of certain plays. He’s an inevitability character but you have to know how to set up poker flourish and which poker flourish to go for. While the 4 of a kind ace route is the most common, it takes awhile to set up. Of the inevitabilty characters he requires an enormous hand size and its not as straightforward as say “win combat while TD is active”, “land big super”, or have “Joker backup and overdose/chipout”.

For more analysis by a Lum player this guide could be good. It shows what type of mindset you need to play this character. Very math heavy.

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That does sound somewhat involved

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