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Unfinished Business (+demands)


#1

With all the work and focus that is being put on the Fantasy Strike FG I really hope it doesn’t mean that Sirlin Games will be done with board and card games. I realize that it is taking up all the resources, both in time and money, atm (which is understandable) and that it will be the main focus of attention even once it’s released. But surely (maybe?) there is room to be able to work on both the FG and card game stuff once the FG is released? Maybe this is just wishful thinking but Sirlin Games is my favorite game company, by a lot, and it would be crushing for me if they stopped making board and card games. I realize there is a big disconnect with how Sirlin Games thinks and how the general board game populace thinks so this alone might make it not worth the effort to continue in the board game medium.

Either way here are my requests/demands

  1. Sirlin Games needs to make a game that “fixes” tactical miniatures style games (doesn’t need to have miniatures)
  2. Super Yomi needs to be a thing
  3. The missing FS characters need to be in Codex
  4. Once these above projects are completed I will have my gaming needs will all be fulfilled and you can then focus solely on the FSFG except demand point 5 must always be followed.
  5. Continued commitment to making new editions of your games if they can be significantly improved for top level play
  6. EDIT: digital Codex needs to be a thing

I know point 5 is a big sticking point and has caused a lot of the anger among the general board game populace. But I don’t really care about their feelings in this matter (they probably only played the game 0-2 times any way, what do they even care if a new edition comes out). Also people are generally pacified towards new editions if an upgrade pack is a thing.

I’m pretty sure I’ll be super bummed about my requests/demands and I can’t blame Sirlin Games at all for wanting to get out of the board/card game market. Which if true will be the saddest gaming related thing to happen to me in all my life.

I don’t mean to sound negative (I’m just bummed) and it’s cool that Sirlin is following is dream of making his own FG. I just wish there was one analog gaming company left that cared about and as intensely as Sirlin Games cares about making fair and long lasting competitive games (with out having to buy new stuff every month).

In the event that Sirlin Games is still in the analog gaming business disregard all of the above except for demands 1,2,3,5.


#2

Hopefully someone like Sirlin Games can make a game that reuses the core systems of the best card game ever made Warhammer 40,000: Conquest.


#3

I’m sure a lot of people would dig that or maybe they would rage for because some one stole the idea from FFG/Eric Lang/Nate French/Brad Andres. I wouldn’t be surprised if FFG reused the core system themselves. Not sure what their contract with GW entailed but it seems like they should be able to set another world in the rules of Conquest.

I was never that big on the game (I did watch a lot more games then I played though). Within the core of the game it seemed to have a pretty big snowball problem.


#4

If you lose units for no benefit it can be snowbally, and if you dominate command it can be snowbally. Stuff like Tarrus and “units from HQ show up exhausted” mitigate it a lot imo.


#5

If there was one thing I’d still want, it would actually be to have a Yomi “Round 3” box with four additional Yomi characters (likely Codex characters such as Drakk and Calamandra). Fixes for Zane and Troq would be nice as well, but new characters are what would be really exciting. :smiley:


Ideas about additionnal characters from Codex lore!
#6

fixed that for ya :wink:


#7

I’d prefer the missing Codex characters to be in Yomi, Puzzle Strike or Flash Duel ! :stuck_out_tongue:
I’d love to play a Yomi Bigby/Orpal, I’ve some ideas about Puzzle Strike Calamandra and River should definitely be in Flash Duel \o/

Maybe could we dream of these characters in Fantasy Strike fighting game in the future too ? :smiley:
I don’t like Prynn and Vir that much, but yeah Calamandra or Drakk would be soooo fun to play with !

I can’t imagine Lum as a general of an army in Codex, but yeah a third Neutral spec with Menelker as a hero and Vendetta/Valerie/Persephone as units would definitely be awesome !

Maybe in some v2 Codex in 10 years or about we could imagine a reboot of Peace spec with awesome long-range Clockwork-BBB-like-soldiers on Onimaru’s maxband choice instead of fleshy vanilla sparkshot soldiers ? Or choice available to the active player between both ?


#8

Hey, tell me more about WH40K Conquest, is that game now “done”? Since Games Workshop and Final Flight aren’t working together anymore? Can you play as Tau? Are they any good?


#9

IMO tacitcal miniatures games are more or less fixed with Warmachine/Hordes mk.3 It’s really, really good yo.


#10

I’d really, really, really, really like to see digital implementation of Codex at some point.


#11

Does anybody have an analysis of what makes those miniatures games good?

I’ve seen some stuff on X-Wing the Miniatures Game and that seems like the remake we’re talking about.

I could see someone doing it cheaper and with games that run faster. I think you could have grid movement and that might make it easier for new people too. Also, it seems to be less balanced than usual Sirlin games because I see people talking about building teams towards the current meta. I think that there are a bunch of games that try to do all that, but I don’t know if they are any good.


#12

Yeah, how can I forget that one. I’ll add it to the list.

For me these are the important points to fixing the tactical miniatures game genre:

  1. Remove the measuring tape. So, put it on a grid. Measuring tapes make the games unplayable in a competitive environment, imo. It’s too easy to cheat both on purpose and accidentally. The measuring tape just creates a lot of problems. It even creates problems in serious casual play.

  2. They would need some sort of Codex like take to army building. It might not have army building and I’d be okay with that too.

  3. Some hidden information and bluffing is a must for me. Hidden information takes away the Gods eye view of the game which I don’t enjoy. The bluffing keeps the game interesting even if you don’t ever change up your list (which is a must to keep most minis games interesting) and makes you have to play more to the situation and opponent. I want the game to stay interesting even if I use the same list vs your same list many times. Also wouldn’t mind some variance in the form of a deck of cards.

  4. I don’t just want “a board game with miniatures” plenty of combat board games with miniatures have been made but they don’t try to provide the experience brought on by games like Malifaux, WarmaHordes, etc.

These are the big points for me. I like Malifaux for its Deck of cards so it has hidden information and some variance but still uses a tape measure and bluffing isn’t really a thing with it. Leviathans was probably the closest board game for me but it died and it doesn’t have bluffing.

It’s not really even a matter of making it easier for new people, though that is a positive side benefit. Removing the grid would make that game so much better, imo. With out the grid it is super easy to cheat both accidentally and on purpose. The slightest nudge to a fighter completely changes its flight path. Having a grid in a game that uses the flight system of Wings of Glory would be great. Though the game would still have meta problems so at this point if it was moved to a grid I wouldn’t jump in (also the way it’s sold to you is horrible so not jumping in for that either). I was/am working on a game myself that aims to be the miniature game for me and it uses hidden movement (though not to the distances used by other games in the flight path genre).


#13

Yeah, Conquest is over. Much like Codex, you can now pay a bunch of money and know that you’ll own all of it. Tau is one of the factions in the game, but I’ve only played casual games with my girlfriend, so I can’t speak to how competitive they are compared to other factions.


#14

When sirlin games announced that it is making a card game base on rts, I thought that he is going to refine or repurpose “The Ares Project” by Geoff Engelstein. :psyduck:

Though, I hope he could


#15

Have you tried Guild Ball? It still has measuring tape, but it does have the hidden info/bluffing mechanic (although admittedly only at quite a high level), and it has a lot of interesting decision-making. I haven’t played it a huge amount, but if I ever wanted to play a miniature game, that would be the one I’d go for.


#16

I’ve looked into it a little bit but haven’t gone much further then that. Unless I suddenly had a group of friends that was playing one of these skirmish miniature games I’m pretty much done with that genre.

Oh another couple of miniature board games I forgot to mention that I like the core of a lot are Dungeons and Dragons: Command and Puppet Wars: Unstitched.

Dungeons and Dragons: Command doesn’t have any bluffing but it pretty much has everything else on my list and I like it a lot. It’s a dead game but it had enough released for it that unless some degenerate thing is discovered I can still get a ton of play out of what is available.

Puppet Wars: Unstitched has pretty much everything on the list (the bluffing aspect is pretty minor though). It doesn’t really have enough content atm and it seems it is most likely dead? Though Wyrd has said otherwise. Either they are really slow about it or it’s a dead game. The other “problem” with the game is you have to put together the miniatures and some of them are very fiddly, yuck. Otherwise I enjoy the game quite a bit.


#18

Maybe @Sirlin can fix the combat mechanic of dice masters. I think it gives a very strong comeback mechanic, sometimes winning the game after the attack


#19

Is that the game that’s basically quarriors?