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[Tournament] Codex Asynchronous Winter Swiss 2018 (CAWS18)


#61

Thanks everyone above for your comments. I don’t mean that they are broken because you can still deal with them, it just take more resources and Rook’s extra 1 HP has always been a 6 feet huddle to jump over to me everytime I try to remove him. I’m being totally whiny and maybe more experience will help, but it is true that Rook provides with 1 extra HP by just summoning him, usually ends up costing golds and a card to negate which is huge in early game.

Regarding Birds Nest, I understand you can’t compare single cards alone, but it just seems like a lot of value when you look at it with a card like Harmony.

One can argue Dark Pact at least takes up a tech slot without providing actual body or damage itself, one less higher tech card in your draw and sometimes those early damages to base can pay off later.

I am a true believer of Codex’s balance and I think people’s reaction to this discussion of OP proves that cards can have different values to each player.

My point is that as a new member of the forum, I ask you experienced players for this balancing efforts towards the next tournament to be reviewed very carefully even if it’s just trying out thing as it can discourage people who are new and do not understand the reason for these changes.

Thanks again for everyone’s warm welcoming and really appreciate your comments.


#62

Dark Pact can actually be cheated in with Vandy’s midband, so you can get access to it without spending a tech slot, with the added bonus of being able to use it immediately to try and fetch a key card from the deck (or a newly teched card on a lucky reshuffle). Yeah, you have to exhaust her to do it, but if you can’t otherwise attack because of a troublesome patroller, or if she has readiness from Metamorphosis, the exhaust cost is relatively minor. Also, it can be (and has been) used to deal direct damage to an opponent’s base (usually in the final turn of a game).


#63

@Nekoatl Thanks for commenting on this and I totally agree with you. No doubt it’s a great card maybe it’s one of the cards that need further vetting and maybe someone can help with this as I lack the ability to analyze this statistically but I think there is still a drawback. When Vandy uses her ability to fetch the card, not only 1 gold is spent but also you are adding one more card to your deck which shares the downside of all abilities that add cards to the deck which is less chance of drawing the card you need in later turns. Of course, Dark Pact overcomes this by drawing extra card but I think that it was intended to feel like StimPack that you have to keep injecting and you could pay the cost for overusing it when base is down to like single digit. My argument sounds very hypothetical and if you guys’ point is proven by data, I will think again about this card. Maybe it’s merely a feeling of uneasiness of pining my own base that I have to be okay with.

I’m going to keep writing until I get a heart from @Hobusu :slight_smile:


#64

Sorry @bansa , by bringing up Dark Pact, I shifted the discussion away from your legitimate complaint about Birds’ Nest. I apologize for that.

I completely agree that Birds’ Nest is a very strong card. Its appeal IMO is how consistent and low-risk it is, even relative to other A-grade spells like Bloodlust, Kidnapping, Lich’s Bargain, Temporal Distortion, etc. It’s cheap, there’s no obvious way to play around it, it doesn’t put your base or economy at risk, and you don’t need another card in hand or on board to play it. In these respects I’d say it’s only second to Dark Pact.

However, Birds’ Nest does have some drawbacks. As Shadow_Night_Black pointed out, it’s slow: what you get is 2 evasive damage per turn, starting next turn. This can add up to a lot, but it’s nowhere near the immediate pressure that some other cards can generate.
Moreover, Birds’ Nest has a hard cap: you can’t spam it turn after turn and get an endless stream of cards, or a bigger and bigger army, or whatever unit you want from your codex turn after turn, etc. You get two 1/1 Birds and that’s it.

Granted, you can make up for both of these drawbacks with combo pieces, and Birds’ Nest does have amazing combo potential with stuff like Spartners and Two Step. This is also what sets Birds apart from other early game fliers. But that just means Birds’ Nest is a key component in some strong game plans, not that it’s necessarily too strong as a standalone card.

All that being said, the list of changes EricF proposed here, and which we might test during the next tournament, does include a nerf to Birds’ Nest - basically making it even slower than it is. Another option I could think of would be making the Birds untargetable by Buff spells, similar to Nullcraft, which would limit their combo potential.


#65

@Dreamfire Thank you for your considerate response. I agree with all of your points about Birds Nest. Although it seems unbalanced compared to a card like Harmony, it has it’s own drawbacks. My complaint was more about the fact that Rook has Birds Nest and how difficult to deal with that 1 extra HP on top of that he is equipped with such a high value spell that can give you more value overtime. I know this is baby crying and I really appreciate all of your comments to this discussion that proves the underlying balance of Codex. And that is where my real point is.

I will be straight up honest with you since it looks like I might have already made enemies by stirring up the pot. I am against big shifts that can be created by these balancing list which I think sounds a little excessive. I admire the replayability of Codex without having to constantly issue new cards and modify the gameplay to stay attractive and replayable like other games. Codex is different and there is something in there evolving with all of us. This is in line with @FrozenStorm 's comment about Finesse. No game can be perfect and sounds like we have a consensus on some of the cards like Dark Pack. I respect all of your collective experience and fully trust the judgement that will be made towards upcoming tweaks. Just wanted to share a newcomer’s concern about disrupting the originality of Codex which might discourage some of us. Thank you.


#66

Just realized I got a heart from @Hobusu so I can stop writing now. @zhavier Sorry to pollute this official posting with random argument. Moving forward, I will try to find more appropriate post to write these comments.


#67

In the future, you can click the link icon on a post and click + New Topic to start a new thread that links back to that post.


#68

@Marto

Don’t let all this discussion slow you down :slight_smile:


#69

EricF managed to pull off the player 2 win after a brutal turn 1 split.

1 last round to determine who wins it all.

FINALS!

  1. [CAWS18] FINALS EricF [Discipline]/Strength/Finesse vs Marto [Discipline]/Strength/Finesse

#70

EricF has proven victorious, and thus ends the CAWS 2018 tournament.

Here are the final standings.

PLAYER: WIN-LOSS-BYE
EricF [Discipline]/Strength/Finesse: 8-2-1
Marto [Discipline]/Strength/Finesse: 8-3-0
Dreamfire [Strength]/Blood/Future : 5-3-1
codexnewb [Necro]/Anarchy/Growth: 4-3-0
zhavier [Finesse]/Anarchy/Blood: 4-3-0
witspur [Disease]/Blood/Anarchy: 3-3-1
flagrantangles [Bashing]/Fire/Peace: 2-3-1
FrozenStorm [Anarchy]/Necro/Growth: 3-3-0
tie MonoPurple: 1-3-1
Nekoatl [Discipline]/Past/Law: 2-3-0
thehug0naut [Feral]/Present/Blood: 2-3-0
Bomber678 [Balance]/Peace/Law: 1-3-0
charnel_mouse [Balance]/Blood/Strength: 1-3-0
Bob199 MonoPurple: 0-3-1
Shadow_Night_Black [Present]/Past/Finesse: 0-3-0