[Tournament] 19XX: Kerfuffle 3 - Tournament Complete - Legion Wins!

Yeah, I think objectively I should probably stick with Lum. My mind had totally gone to mush by the end of game 2 though and I felt like I needed to play something different than just “hold block until something happens”. I also need to get over my revulsion towards Martial Mastery and just deal with it. It’s Yomi, mind games are kind of the point, even if I just want to out-valuation people rather than reading their mind. Same goes for KtO turns.

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Best Gal loses 10-0 to Grave then, got it.

Good thing I have answers for him.

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I think Quince does fine against Grave. I wouldn’t argue that it’s a heavily advantaged match up, however. I’m of the opinion that if Quince has an advantage, it’s a small one and that’s mostly because Positive Spin is pretty good against anyone. Furthermore, if Grave wants to use Martial Mastery, he’s giving up a throw to beat K-Spin. Additionally, countering 2 Truths should be a priority of his and that’s just fine since it bleeds his precious face cards out of his hand. The only real danger is that if you don’t manage your hand well or you’ve just been put into some rough spots, you can end up extremely soft to TPoS.

In my mind, the key is really that Grave has to expend more resources to keep you hampered and Quince just needs to play a little more conservatively.

I’ll also say that I think Geiger is fine against Grave.

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Look mate, being a Grave main, hear my 2 cents.
Val grave is grave fav,so avoid her as a CP unless ur really confident in said MU.
best anti grave are: quince (grave is throw light, K spin is hell, plus quince can recur his 7 while grave MUST treasure his 7 and 8 so no MM); in non 19XX i’d say use zane. Arg is always fine against grave. (imho gieger-grave is 5-5)

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thehug0naut advances over mi-go hunter due to TO decision.

Oh man. I was looking forward to that match. :cry::crab:

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19XX: Kerfuffle 3
1 Loss Division

Mystic Deadman vs. @SouthpawHare

:chibigwen::psfist::pschip::chibigwen:WHAT ARE WE EVEN DOING
:chibigwen::pschip::psfist::chibigwen:WHY ARE WE EVEN DOING
:chibiargagarg::pschip::psfist::chibigwen:
:chibiargagarg::psfist::pschip::chibigwen:
:chibiargagarg::pschip::psfist::chibigloria:
:chibionimaru::psfist::pschip::chibigloria:
:chibionimaru::psfist::pschip::chibibbb:

Final Score:
MD 4-3 SPH

What the hell were we thinking, starting off Gwen vs. Gwen. It’s like we were in some kind of rush to get the set over or something. Luckily, I was able to get to 1-2 in my first time ever actually intentionally playing Arg to slow things down. This match was insane as hell, and I loved every second of it.

GGs d00d, and good luck to you in your future endeavors!

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variable vs. @MR75

:gloria::pschip::psfist::chibigrave:
:gloria::pschip::psfist::chibigrave:
:gloria::pschip::psfist::chibigrave:
:quince::pschip::psfist::chibigrave:

I was playing too safe!

MR wins, 4-0!

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LR3 @variable vs MR 0-4
here some comments

:gloria::pschip::psfist::grave: very loooong and tense match. I managed to got lifelead, but vs gloria I never felt safe, comeback is always around. I took him down 10hp vs 50-60hp, then we played many many turns around that score, dealing some dmg and healing… finally got him Q vs J

:gloria::pschip::psfist::grave: Took him down to 5hp vs 60hp… then again many many turns around (heal up, deal some dmg again, heal up…). finally dodge a J into throw and 1hp left on KD. Power up for A and played it for chip dmg

:gloria::pschip::psfist::grave: got a great start hand, AA and 22. I was thrown T1, but T2 reverted it with 8 throw. then power up 2s, for TPOS, MM: he had only 10 block. T3 Got a mixup 5–>TPOS. So 50dmg were an hard hit for Gloria. Then again dmg/heal dance…

:quince::pschip::psfist::grave: looong game. got smashed by some Quince lies or truths, spent all my Jokers, but guessed right an A vs his 7 throw on 12hp vs 40hp.

Great games variable!
Thanks for the tips on these MUs too. I surely played too many MM, that burned my 7s as throw (even if in g3, that helped me in landing TPOS: but indeed, without good draws, I could have ran out of options very fast.)

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W4: Legion vs @mysticjuicer
I win 4-0
:setsuki::psfist::pschip: :lum: very tense match, swings the whole round back and forth
:setsuki::psfist::pschip: :grave: here i get quicky down to 6 hp against >60 but manage and awesome comeback
:setsuki::psfist::pschip: :grave: mystic is very shy with his TPOS, so i go with a hug theraphy
:setsuki::psfist::pschip: :menelker: here i blocked the Q and disrespected them when mystic did not play them.

Respect and ggs man! I was super scared 90% of the time

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ggs! still searching for a character in this format that I feel good about playing against Setsuki. :slight_smile:

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flagrantangles wins 4-2 vs @Castanietzsche

:quince::pschip::psfist::quince: Oh no! Which doppleganger is the real one?! He is, turns out.
:valerie::pschip::psfist::quince: I got Casta down quite a bit in this match without being touched, but then I kept attacking too much and Quince was able to shuck away all of my hit points. OOPS. Gotta respect the truth, my friends.
:valerie::psfist::pschip::quince: Okay, the wiley paintress makes her point and teaches Quince the value of artistic expression. Mostly, I just learned that if Casta didn’t want to respect my Aces, I was going to put them in his face.
:valerie::psfist::pschip::gwen: #Gwenmeta2017 I was surprised to see this switch since the consensus is generally that Val cp’s Gwen. However, the play style Val has to employ vs Quince is very different from the one you have to employ against Gwen so I can see the rationale. That and Gwen can really get a lot out of a combat win. Anywho, I go lowhand early on because I have got the juice. Val’s Aces are oppressive AF and bursts are not fun for either of us.
:valerie::psfist::pschip::gwen: I win this one but it’s super close. Casta starts putting more dodges in so I can’t just attack with impunity, though I still do sometimes since Gwen’s dodge punishes aren’t great outside of Dreadlands Portal.
:valerie::psfist::pschip::jaina: I feel comfortable fighting Jaina but I didn’t expect to see her. He gets some good hits/chip damage in but I did throw an Ace into an Ustable Power throw and deal a very lovely 17 damage. I’ve got the lead until he throws a billion Queens into my face. After that he uses Unstable Power again and I block and get thrown by the 6 and he pumps it twice leaving me at 19 life. He’s got few cards in hand and at least 2 of them are aces. I attack with Val’s Queen into a dodge and then burst the A+ followup. After that I throw with a 7 and catch his dodge. He doesn’t FD and I combo into lethal with J++.

GGs Castanietzsche!

5 Likes

Caralad vs @UTRALAW

Caralad wins 4-1

:rook: :psfist: :pschip: :onimaru:
:rook: :psfist: :pschip: :bbb:
:rook: :psfist: :pschip: :bbb:
:rook: :pschip: :psfist: :bbb:
:grave: :psfist: :pschip: :bbb:

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#rookstrong

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thehug0naut vs @fusxfaranto

:argagarg::psfist::pschip::gwen:
Argagarg is really tough when you already lose 2HP per turn
:argagarg::psfist::pschip::gloria:
the 19XX carousel begins, and I somehow counter the CP
:argagarg::psfist::pschip::gloria:
I was really lucky to win this one, in the end I drew into a timely Q to hit him for exact lethal
:argagarg::pschip::psfist::gloria:
ok now it feels like a proper CP. Was throw starved and outplayed in the early game and then he managed to get all 4 healing spheres up to keep his heals going so I had no way to comeback
:midori::psfist::pschip::gloria:
My turn to CP. I managed to draw into a monstrous dragon hand and then hit gloria with dragon things until she stopped moving

thehug0naut wins 4-1!

GGs. I hope my argagarg didn’t make you too salty, tho I do enjoy harvesting delicious saline :argagarg::chibiargagarg::codexargagarg:

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GutterOwl 4-2 @thehug0naut

:persephone::psfist::knockdown::argagarg:
:persephone::psfist::knockdown::grave:
:persephone::knockdown::psfist::grave:
:persephone::knockdown::psfist::grave: ugh, so close to getting a pixel runback. oh well.
:persephone::psfist::knockdown::grave: first turn Command! hooray! could’ve gone full hardlock if I was paying attention but i’m actually dumb. boo!
:persephone::psfist::knockdown::grave:

Last game, I managed to win on multiple throws/normals ENTIRELY because I forgot that my opponent had known TPoS, and he was playing on the assumption that I would respect it. My goldfish memory is OP tech.

Good games!

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Really well played @GutterOwl! Still feeling that mistress command into my 5 attack :fearful:

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I finally have the strength to post this reply…

Yeah, Martial Mastery seems like something that basically shouldn’t be used in certain matchups. Quince is one of those matchups, as Quince really wants to dodge to set up his washing machine vortex (often/usually, but, of course, not always), and Grave’s 7 throw beats all throws & blodges that Quince has. Theoretically, it’s also important to keep 7 & 8 throws in hand to defend against Quince’s K spin, but I feel like the Grave can occasionally go HAM and defeat Quince after throwing all of his 7s & 8s in the garbage. If Grave can get far enough ahead, and attack often enough into the K spin, maybe the Quince can’t finish things even if he starts up the washer!

One thing that is scary, though, is Patriot Mirror. If the Grave player is going TOO HAM with 7 throw, then a dodge/7 throw Patriot Mirror turn could turn into a loss of some kind!

Also, ah, I don’t feel like the ‘Look at the opponent’s hand’ peeking clause of Martial Mastery does much against Quince. He’s going to show ye a lot of his Face Cards, either through Two Truths or his innate, and a lot of his Aces are going to be known info as well. Ye aren’t getting much value out of this part of the ability, I’d say. Maybe ye spy a seven throw and force a dodge during a Patriot Mirror turn or something down the road because of it, but it’s less good than it looks, in my opinion. There’s also the potential of seeing a Quince with three 2s in hand & intentionally not countering Two Truths if the Grave only has one counter - because the Quince is likely going to get his Truth on nevertheless, and it’s possible that Grave’s attack is more valuable than denying Quince a few cards. Using one against a KD Quince is still usually wise, as Quince’s defensive options are fairly limited & sometimes he can’t guess a certain way.

In addition, for people who are familiar with MTG, the ‘Then discard a card’ part of Martial Mastery is like looting. It does draw 2, but it’s more of a filtration tool than a draw engine! It doesn’t even put ye up a card! :0 Ye are discarding the 7 for the ability, and then something else, which evens out drawing two. It’s minimal “value” - viewed this way! :cat2:

One other thing about Two Truths is: Pay attention to the cards in the piles! When the Quince puts a 2 and another card in a pile, and three cards in the other pile, generally give the Quince the three cards! I don’t know about other Quinces, but I view the 2 as the most valuable thing to reveal in the abstract off of a Two Truths besides a Joker! Deny the Quince more selection - do not give him a 2 and another card if ye can help it! Constrict his hand as much as ye can!

Ooh, and one Grave vs. Gloria thing I think that ye were overvaluing was countering Healing Sphere! Once Gloria has a Sphere attached, she breaks even when she Healing Touches back a Hearts (Let’s do the math: Discarding two cards to recur one Hearts. Net hand size -1. And then the card from Healing Sphere pushes her back to 0.) Once she has a second Sphere attached she is +1 on cards in hand every time she’s able to heal. Here’s how ye want to answer this: By knocking her down! Countering the second Sphere slows her down a little if she’s trying to go for the checkmate situations that I’m generally looking for when I play her, but ye aren’t setting her back - she is setting ye back!

Grave spends one more card than Gloria in attempting to fight her on this axis, and he draws far fewer cards than a Gloria with her engine going! Arg’s counter costs a card, but gives Gloria back her card (unless Jack is being countered - more on this later!), and it allows the Gloria to potentially reshuffle the 10s back into her deck & re-draw them over the longer game that Arg typically plays. Persephone’s counter is mainly for being cute when ye have them under ye control, but I guess it could make Gloria pay life sometimes that throws off the math in Perse’s favor. For the most part, though, I doubt it.

The thing that ye actually want to counter, as was stated previously stated somewhere else (maybe in this thread, actually?), is the Jack ability, Bathed in Moonlight, because… From my point of view… Let’s say that ye tried to win combat with a throw and the Gloria plays Fast J, which is a 2.2 speed attack - a fairly decent-to-good speed in most matchups. Well, the Gloria wins combat, can potentially combo into a straight for some solid damage, and then can buy back her Jack at the low cost of it retroactively dealing 1 damage to the opponent instead of 5 and also healing her for 4! What if it’s a blodge? Throw into J works, too?! This move is absurd! :0 Counter Bathed in Moonlight whenever ye can, in my opinion, especially on the non-Hearts Jacks, since they can’t be recurred! Extra-especially with :chibiargagarg:, because Gloria’s Jack will go into the discard instead of the bottom of the deck - because the Jack ability isn’t played from hand!! :0

Anyway, yeah, I’m sure that @MR75 knew all of that already, but I wanted to explain a bit about how I was looking at the matchup from the :codexquince: & :chibigloria: point of view! :smiley_cat:

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Hmm, actually I don’t have all this experience in these MUs (moreover I often lose MUs in which I have some confidence :sweat_smile:), so every tip is very appreciated!

In our Quince vs Grave match, I play even less MM than I usually do :sweat_smile:, since I also took care of @Legion 's advice some replies above (played it only when I had at last an 8 in hand too, then luckly I topdeck another 8 same turn I lost it vs a throw…).

Totally agree on Quince’s 2s: in our match I chose to give u another 2, because I didn’t want to give you 7 throw (2&J, with other two 7s in dicard pile), and got luck on next 2s (no other throws :slight_smile:), but surely it was a risky play.

I surely take care of all your tips for future matchs (even if MM temptation is sooo high!)

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definitly solid points. Completely agree on everything. @MR75 About the gloria MU consider that her J can allow HS to stay on even when she cannot afford to HT. So countering Js is far more efficient to get rid of HS, especially when she is low on cards.

1 Like