Has vs Gains? I don’t know.
I would assume the T3 griffin can’t be overridden by a one time thing either. If the griffin is telling the base “you have flying” 24/7 then any one time interruption should be cancelled out by 1 second later the griffin tells the base that it has flying again.
Both Mimic and Griffin seem like they should be reapplying the text every time state based effects is checked.
I would think that Crawler would also apply its negation for the whole turn. Otherwise it would probably not work on any flyer, regardless of how flying is granted.
Hmm. @sharpobject
My understanding is that it has to deal with the timestamps, and with ‘allowing wandering mimic to work’.
You play Lawbringer Gryphon, lets say timestamp=10 (i.e. some other stuff happened earlier in the game). Base gains flying at TS=10.
You use Crypt Crawler to make your base lose flying (TS=11).
Check all time stamps, base doesn’t have flying.
You play Wandering Mimic, TS = 12.
It ‘gains’ flying based on the Lawbringer Gryphon having it.
You use Crypt Crawler to make your Mimic lose flying (TS=13).
Cycle through all the TS, see that mimic had flying and lost it; Then go through the special ‘mimic’ layer (after midori/ferns layer, before special unit setting layer, i.e. musketter, etc) and mimic gives himself the ability flying again. Note: There are several similar abilities for other cards.
If my board consists of 2 Pirate-Gang Commanders, 6 Pirate tokens, and Jandra the Negator, and I suicide Jandra on a patroller, how much damage will my opponents’ bases take, and why? I can think of a variety of possible answers from 0 to 18, depending on how effect timing is considered and on whether or not P-GC’s second ability stacks.
This question regarding pirate gang commanders is effectively the exact same scenario as two captured bugblatters and judgment day. You can search the thread for it, but the end result is that everything dies simultaneously, and everything sees everything else die.
Short answer, it deals 18 damage in your example.
“① -> A flier loses flying this turn.”
Seems pretty clear to me. Loses flying for the whole turn.
Seems like Crypt Crawler should work on Wandering Mimic.
I think the way things like that have been interpreted in the past is to mean “A target that has flying loses that flying, then, at the end of the turn, regains that flying.”
By that interpretation, the Mimic would regain it right away.
This is sort of similar to the Gargoyle vs Entangling Vines issue. I agree that the Mimic should lose flying, just like I feel that Entangling Vines should stop Gargoyle from being able to attack, but last I heard, @sharpobject was still up-in-the-air about how to settle the Gargoyle dispute in a rules-consistent way that also behaves as intended.
Yeah. This would be the first we’ve heard of an ultimatum of the sort: " Can’t gain this ability back until time X "
In the case of crypt crawler, it would mean that:
“Nothing in the game can give the targeted thing flying until after this turn”
This gets messy considering Entangling Vines and Manufactured Truth.
There are several ways of giving something flying, it’d be weird if they all did nothing.
This is incorrect. The ability on Mimic, the effect created by Crypt Crawler, the effect created by Gargoyle, and Entangling Vines are all applied every time you compute the derived state.
The Mimic vs. Crypt Crawler question is only about whether we should apply Crypt Crawler’s effect twice each time we compute the derived state: once before applying all Wandering Mimic abilities, to keep Mimics from gaining Flying from stuff that doesn’t have flying, and then again later after applying Wandering Mimic abilities, to remove flying from Wandering Mimics. I think we should do that.
Edit: To clarify, stuff that grants armor does work the way JesusBeard says. Nothing else that I can think of right now does though.
Does this mean that something like an attack buff from Rampant Growth does not work this way?
So Rampant Growth would have “add 2 armor to target unit, then at the end of turn, remove 2 armor from target unit” plus “until end of turn, whenever game state is checked, give +2 to the printed attack of target unit”?
Yes that’s right.
I’m not sure if this is referring to:
1.) Only a card with the ability of Wandering Mimic
2.) All cards
If it applies to #2 then it prevents anything that later gives something a ‘lost’ ability, from giving it that ability.
Scenario A:
During the same turn:
Play Lawbringer Gryphon #1
Make your base lose flying with crypt crawler
Play Lawbringer Gryphon #2
Does you base have flying?
Scenario B:
During the same turn:
Exhaust Sparring Partner, put +1/+1 rune on your Building Inspector
Use Sparring Partners ready ability; He can’t attack this turn
Manufactured truth your Sparring Partner into Gargoyle
Use your Sparring Partner/Gargoyles ability; he gains ‘can attack’
Can Sparring Partner attack?
I read “Loses flying this turn” as “Loses it now and this ability that removed flying goes away at the end of the turn”.
Something that reapplies flying as a state based effect would defeat this one shot effect every time state based effects were checked.
Alright, I am concerned about Scenario A. It seems like I have to accept some breakage here. I am inclined to accept Crypt Crawler not working on Mimic.
Edit: After exploring some other options I’m still the least upset with this one. So sorry for all the confusion earlier.
If a card becomes a copy of another. The printed info converts. If it takes damage does that damage stay on it when it converts both to and from the other unit using example manufactured truth. Follow up if a tech 0 unit had plus 1/1 token on it before the conversion. I would assume it would still get the plus 1/1 after it converts to the other unit.
Damage and runes will stay on it.
I imagine no, the base wouldn’t have flying, because crypt crawler has caught it in a net.
It has lost flying for the whole turn.
Here’s a way to think about it: Imagine you have a unit with flying, such as a void star then you put a feather rune on it. Now it has flying and flying.
If you use crypt crawler’s ability on it, can grounded things without anti air attack it?
I should think yes.
It depends on the order of the stuff. Here’s an example from a different game that happens to work the same way here:
Example: Two effects are affecting the same creature: one from an Aura that says “Enchanted creature gains flying” and one from an Aura that says “Enchanted creature loses flying.” Applying them in timestamp order means the one that was generated last “wins.” The same process would be followed, and the same result reached, if either of the effects had a duration (such as “Target creature loses flying until end of turn”) or came from a non-Aura source (such as “All creatures lose flying”).
And based on that, you’re saying that wandering mimic cannot be told it loses flying? Even if that effect happens after it gains flying?