Rules Questions thread

I had answered the second chances question when it came up before, but I never saw @sharpobject confirm or deny how it works.

This question is about the meaning of “once-per-turn.” It could mean “the ability triggers only once per turn” or it could mean “the ability returns something to play only once per turn.” I didn’t know what it meant, so I looked at all the other cards in the game with triggered abilities that happen only X times per turn. But there weren’t any. So I’m not sure.

Edit: For activated abilities that say “once-per-turn”, which there are a bunch of, you obviously can’t use them to do nothing then use them again.

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What about Orpal and Drakk, “first per turn”

I would think that if you had one Second Chances in play and somehow multiple units of yours leave play at the same time on your turn from something other than combat damage, you would get to pick which one of them is returned by Second Chances.

If the same thing happened on your opponent’s turn, however, either the ability would fizzle, since you aren’t allowed to make decisions when it’s not your turn, or your opponent would get to pick which one it saved.

As for what happens in either situation when you have multiple Second Chances? I have no idea, but I’d love to hear a specific ruling from Sharpo when he figures it out, because Past is one of my favorite specs.

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The card is pretty clear that it’s chosen randomly if multiple units leave play at once.

i believe that during opponent turn, the saved card would be random (eg you use judgement day, i have a second chances we roll a die or something). same thing if 2 SC are on the board, otherwise having them or not during the opponent’s turn would be meaningless.
If it happens during my turn (i use rewind), i get to choose, instead.

The way I have it noted (maybe right, maybe wrong):

Say you have two second chances in play, we’ll call them SC-A and SC-B

Something happens, and more than one of your units leaves play at the same time

SC-A and SC-B trigger, you can order them however you want, lets order SC-A to resolve before SC-B does

SC-A resolves. It then randomly chooses amongst the ‘units that left play’ and returns a unit to play (as long as its still in the zone that it went to after leaving play).

SC-B resolves. It then randomly chooses amongst the ‘units that left play’ and returns a unit to play (as long as its still in the zone that it went to after leaving play). Note: It could 'randomly choose the same unit chosen by SC-A, at which point it would ‘have no effect’ when it resolved.

Rules about SC’s:
It doesn’t matter who controls the SCs, or whose turn it is when they trigger, no player ever gets to make a decision about what is returned.

If the ability ‘has no effect’ then that SC will continue trying to return something to play, as its once-per-turn has not yet been used up (it tried to use it, but couldn’t, so hasn’t yet been used ‘once-per-turn’ yet).

Based on other cards, its possible for SC-A and SC-B to both ‘fail to return something to play’ in certain situations, and for them both to continue trying to return things later in the turn.

Every SC you control triggers each time any unit(s) you control leave play, whether it has already returned something or not. When it resolves it decides if it should return something to play or not.

Oh, whoops! I forgot about that! Sorry, you’re right.

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Is there an official ruling about what happens if you have both Second Chances and Reteller of Truths in play and a non-token illusion gets killed by something other than combat damage? Presumably active player chooses whether it goes to hand or back into play? Does it ‘use up’ the other effect?

Reteller of Truths is marked as “first” so at a minimum it counts triggers, and would get used up. The other part, I am fairly certain it will be active player chooses the order of resolution. They do not interfere with each other resolving.

Now you’ve said that, I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works. Both of those abilities look for the target in the discard, if it’s not there (because the other has resolved, putting it somewhere else, I don’t think the effect will resolve. As it hasn’t resolved, does it count towards the X-per-turn limit?

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Incorrect, second chances doesn’t care where the card is.

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In the case where the unit died, I think it does care and does look for it in the discard. Do you think that the two effects will work differently then, because one cares and one doesn’t? Also, am I right in thinking that under your interpretation a second copy of Second Chances doesn’t do anything at all?

Btw, @sharpobject was looking for triggered effects which are X per turn, I think Reteller of Truths qualifies…

No, Reteller is worded the same as Drakk and Orpal Maxband.

Reteller and Second Chances definitely work differently. You found a very narrow overlap.

I think you’re perhaps misunderstanding me. You drew the distinction that Reteller will only work from the discard, whereas Second Chances works from anywhere. So if my illusion dies, I can choose to have Second Chances trigger first, but then Reteller can’t find it, so it fizzles. But if I choose to have Reteller trigger, then they can both resolve, because Reteller puts it into hand, and then Second Chances grabs it from hand and returns it to play. Is that right? So it’s impossible for the unit to end up in my hand.

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So, you could pose a similar question with Reteller of Truths: “If you have 2 in play, do their abilities overlap completely? Or do you get an additional 2 units returned to your hand?” I feel like it’s probably the former, but codexcarddb.com doesn’t say.

Also, what if you have only 1 Reteller of Truths, and it’s the first thing that dies on a turn? If a second Illusion thing dies, does it not get saved? I’d guess “Yes”, but I’m not positive.

Also, if you have a Reteller of Truths in play and 3 of your units die at once, do you get to pick which 2 go to your hand (assuming it’s your turn)? If it’s your opponent’s turn, do they pick? Or does it fizzle if you have to make a decision?

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Yes, I agree with that.

Second Chances won’t return a card to play if it’s changed zones since Second Chances triggered (because of Graveyard or Reteller of Truths or something)

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They definitely overlap. @zhavier is right, Reteller is like Drakk - there are only two ‘first two units which died’. If two of your illusions die, and then you play Reteller, she won’t save the next one that dies. Likewise, if she is the first one to die, and then you replay her again, she will save the next unit but not any further ones.

I’m not sure what happens if three illusions die simultaneously, but @sharpobject can probably tell you :slight_smile:

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If its target has changed zones, does it use up the Once-per-turn?