Forecast: Instead of arriving, it goes to the future. It will Arrive later, when the last time rune is removed.
If you are suggesting that the forecast unit has arrived, and has no time runes, and then somehow gets a time rune, you would have to explain how such a thing has happened, because all the time rune creating cards require there to be an existing time rune.
If a mirror copies tech2, the mirror is considered tech2 as well. Therefore manufactured truth cant use the mirror as proxy to copy tech2 onto tech1
Therefore, there is no way for a forcasted unit that already arrived to have time runes.
In the scenario I presented, the card with Forecast (in this case, a unit) has never had zero time runes on it ( Until the time when I said “You remove the last time rune from it” )
I tend to disagree!
Then your statement that the unit has already arrived is false. Instead of arriving, the unit went to the future until such time as the last time rune is removed.
I think the reason your question is impossible is because it’s impossible to have a unit with Forecast in play while it has more than zero time runes. If you can think of a way that statement is incorrect, let me know.
Player A Mind Controls Player B’s Tinkerer
Player B Plays Fading Argonaut
It gets 3 time runes
It “fades down to 1 time rune left” (how this happens is not important…by turns passing, etc)
Player A Mind Controls Player B’s Fading Argonaut with 1x time rune on it
Player A plays Manufactured Truth on their Fading Argonaut and makes it copy Player B’s (In Play) Knight of the Conclave
Player A uses their Tinkerer to remove the last time rune from their (In Play) Knight of the Conclave with 1x time rune on it.
What happens?
Actually, I changed my mind. I think maybe it is possible. What if you stole a Fading Argonaut (1 time rune remaining) with Mind Control, and then used Manufactured Truth to turn Fading Argonaut into a copy of your Knight of the Conclave?
EDIT: Ha! Cross-post!
In that scenario, the unit in question is not in the future, and removing the time rune has no practical effect. Note you could use manufactured truth to safely remove a time rune from a fading argonaut that is somehow under your control as long as the copied unit doesnt have fading. It would not have to be a unit with forecast.
But when Fading Argonaut gains Forecast, is he removed from play and placed into the Future zone? I suspect not, but I’m not confident.
Definitely not. Forecast is an ability that is a replacement effect for how normal units arrive after being played. It has no impact once the unit is in play.
Yeah, that sounds right.
I can agree with this logically, but want to verify.
My question is generally based on the statement:
Forecast X: Starts off… When you remove the last, it arrives.
I guess the real question is what happens to something in play when it is instructed to ‘arrive’.
i.e. If it had an arrives trigger, would it resolve again? Does it become a ‘new card’, similar to what happens when a card is played from hand (it has no past history of being in play, attachments fall off, etc)
Nothing happens. Forecast is an effect that is triggered when a unit enters play. This unit either triggered the Forecast effect when it tried to enter play (in which case Forecast has already resolved as the unit is now in play), or it gained the Forecast keyword after it entered play (in which case Forecast doesn’t do anything).
Note that units in play with Forecast and Time runes don’t remove them during Upkeep, so the only way a time rune would be removed is due to Tinkerer, Seer or Time Spiral.
My interpretation is that the “arrives” trigger represents a change in zone, from another zone to the in-play area. Instructing a unit to move to a zone it’s already in would simply have no effect. Its arrives trigger wouldn’t trigger (and I don’t believe there is a possible case with a forecast unit having an arrives ability, but then again you’ve constantly managed to find creative corner cases), and it wouldn’t become a new card, as there is no zone transition.
Why would something in play with Forecast not remove a time rune during Upkeep? Isn’t that part of the ‘what forecast does’ rules? i.e. ‘remove one each upkeep’
What he meant was that forecast units aren’t ‘in play’, so by his interpretation of the forecast rules once a unit isn’t in the forecast zone anymore the upkeep removal rule stops applying. I personally think that the interpretation can go both ways depending on whether you see the whole forecast ability as three separate abilities or one connected group.
I actually disagree that a forecast unit wouldn’t remove a time rune during upkeep while it is in play.
I see no reason to not remove a time rune during upkeep, per the instructions of forecast, whether it is in play or not. I apply the do as much as you can to the forecast ability.
As with Fading, the whole ability is actually several different sub abilities.
As I understand it, every card that is not in a hidden zone, and that has forecast, triggers during its controllers upkeep.
So, each turn, everything (not in a hidden zone) that is controlled by the active player and that has forecast triggers (whether the card has any time runes on it or not).
If it has a time rune, then remove one. If one was removed, and it was the last, then it arrives.
‘Extra triggers’ from cards with Forecast and no time runes on them are generally ignored, as there is no ‘If no time rune was removed from this then do X’ clause, so the accepted shortcut is to not announce the triggers (and ignore them) but as best I am aware they still trigger every turn.
Edit: Maybe cards that aren’t in hidden zones and cards not in command zones (to allow for future heroes that might have Forecast) trigger during their controllers upkeep.