Yeah. I’ve ‘learned’ from past posts on this forum and now reply to others in the same manner as the post is intended to come across to me.
So I am ‘learning’.
Unless you saw some ‘constructive’ reason for his statement that I missed?
Did I say something that came off as aggressive? Because stuff like this makes me feel like you’re trying to pick a fight.
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He is making a neutral suggestion to be helpful, a mere invitation for you to post questions in this thread should the rulings not satisfy you. You are making a sarcastic response with undertones of condescension to no other purpose than to express disdain at his statement.
So yes, you’ve missed the constructive reason for his statement. Read posts on the assumption that everyone has only goodwill in mind, and proceed from there.
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Let me make sure I got this straight.
Person A asks a question in a rules forum, about a card they have a question about.
Person B tells Person A “If you have a question, ask it in this forum”
Person A is supposed to assume Person B intended to ‘help’ them by telling them to do something they are in the process of doing?
Look @Coiser, I love Codex, and I love discussing it and the rules with people. If I said something that came off as hostile or aggressive, I didn’t mean it that way, so I’m sorry. My interest is only in helping others to also understand and enjoy the game as much as I do.
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I thought it was fairly clear, but here I was responding to your concern that you’d have to ask for a specific breakdown of every single thing that every single card can do:
My intention was to point out that, no, you only have to ask about cards with rules than don’t seem clear to you, even after looking through the codexcarddb.com
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I think my interpretation still stands that the Steam Tank has Stealth when it declares the attack (so it can bypass patrollers), but does not have Stealth when it deals it’s damage (so it would be damaged by a defender’s Tower).
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That’s right.
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Sure, in Yu-Gi-Oh! and MtG they have a document like that. So maybe we should too.
In another game I played, Warhammer 40k: Conquest, the rulings were scattered about on a forum, so it would be hard for a new player to learn that e.g. if a unit has Area Effect (1) and Area Effect (2), then it loses all keywords, it can still use Area Effect to deal 3 damage to each enemy unit at the planet.
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Lets say we have Spore Shambler with Spirit of the Panda attached in play. It gets Polymorphed.
A.) What are the stats and abilities of the Spore Shambler after it has been polymorphed?
B.) What are the stats and abilities of Spore Shambler after the players next upkeep (assuming nothing interacted with it in any way until then)?
A.) If you play Spore Shambler, then attach Spirit of the Panda to it, then use Polymorph: Squirrel on it, and do nothing else, it will be a 5/5 with “Attacks: Gain ①.”.
B.) If you do nothing else and wait for Polymorph Squirrel to expire, it will be a 4/5 with “Arrives: Put two +1/+1 runes on this.”, “① or ⤵︎, then remove a +1/+1 rune → Put a +1/+1 rune on another unit.”, and “Attacks: Gain ①.”.
Edit: At both of those times it will have two +1/+1 runes on it.
Edit again: That ruling looks a little wrong btw. For example if you Rampant Growth the Spore Shambler then Polymorph: Squirrel it, I think it continues to benefit from Rampant Growth after the Polymorph: Squirrel.
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At the top of the thread was an outline of the timing for various change of stats effects. @sharpobject I think your shambled panda scenario agrees with that timing, but can you verify it is accurate?
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EricF’s writeup there looks correct for everything except Behind the Ferns vs. Midori midband.
For Behind the Ferns vs. Midori Midband (I’ve modified this ruling to work given Midori’s shipped ability):
Interactions between Behind the Ferns and Midori’s mid-level ability (which gives +1/+1 to units without abilities) depend on the order of events. Some examples using those cards and Iron Man (a 3/4 with no ability). If you pay Ferns → Iron Man → Midori or Iron Man → Ferns → Midori, your Iron Man will be a 3/4 with stealth. That’s what he is at step 2 of those examples, so at step 3 when Midori’s middle ability is involved, it will not buff Iron Man because at a that point, Iron Man does have an ability (stealth from Behind the Ferns). Similarly if you get Midori → Iron Man → Ferns or Iron Man → Midori → Ferns, the Iron Man will be a 4/5 before Ferns happens, so it will stay a 4/5 with no abilities. However, if you play in this order: Ferns → Midori → Iron Man or Midori → Ferns → Iron Man, then the Iron Man is arriving while both effects already exist. In these cases it is also a 4/5 with no abilities.
As always when some ruling seems more complicated than necessary, I like to look at how other games solved the problem and see if they found anything simpler. In this case, it turns out that MtG’s solution is to… never print any cards like Behind the Ferns, no matter what. You can read about this in the section titled Mosstodon here.
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Agree
Agree
Agree
You beat me to my follow-up question. Boo.
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Ok, this is going towards the loony bin a bit, please bare with me…I think I’ve about got this Gargoyle thing sorted out (we’ll see). Anyway, here goes:
Gargoyle is in play, no arrival fatigue, its ready, you have plenty of gold and it has Entangling Vines attached (of course!).
You pay 1 gold, and I have it gaining a ‘this card can attack and patrol the rest of the turn, no matter what’ pseudo-ability, along with some +attack +flying and losing indestructible.
Gargoyle
3/2
Flying
Can’t Attack or Patrol (two instances of this, but its not cumulative, so just one instance matters)
Can Attack and Patrol No Matter What -> pseudo-ability
Note: This ‘pseudo-ability’ is only generated by a Gargoyle card; no other card in the game can give or create this effect. I am tracking it as being independent of the card, as it is not something gained/gets, etc. Its just something it can do. This can overrides can’t. The only way in the whole game to lose this ‘can attack’ pseudo-ability is via Polymorph. Otherwise it just ‘hangs out’ as something the game ‘knows’ the card has. I am treating the word “Gargoyle” to mean “this exact card”.
You Manufactured Truth the Gargoyle into a Young Treant (lets assume I picked Y.Treant ‘randomly’).
We have:
Gargoyle who is now a Young Treant
3/2
Flying?
Can’t Attack or Patrol (one instance of this, from Entangling Vines)
Can Attack and Patrol No Matter What -> pseudo-ability (Does this ‘carry over’?)
Arrives: Draw a card. (Does nothing, but is text on the card nonetheless)
Can’t Attack (Y. Treant ability)
It can attack and patrol this turn? Thoughts?
Thats an easy one
You have a gargoyle physical card
But until end of turn you must imagine it as if it was a Y.Treant card.
So it will be exactly the same as a physical Y.Treant card that has vines on it.
You basically wasted 1g for the gargoyle activation.
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Polymorph should work similarly to copy effects here, so this bonus created by Gargoyle while it was a Gargoyle should continue to apply imo. That’s what I meant when I said the earlier-quoted ruling on Polymorph seems wrong to me.
I think you have a 3/2 Green Tech 0 Tree unit named Young Treant.
It has “Arrives: Draw a card” “Can’t attack”, the Entangling Vines effect applies to it, it loses indestructible, gains flying, and can attack and patrol
I think you can attack with it for 3. That is of course contingent on Gargoyle normally being able to activate and attack after someone puts Entangling Vines on it. Again I’m not super attached to that interaction, but it’s what we have for now.
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I feel this making the game more complicated than necessary.
Why not make it as simple & intuitive as possible
Gargoyle physical card
0/2 indestructible Cant attack or patrol
Pay 1 gold
Now this Gargoyle physical card basically **gains flying. Gains ability that reads (+3 atk) ** so it rewrote its own text to be
0/2. flying. +3atk. until next upkeep
Now manufactured truth into Y.Treant
this Gargoyle physical card changed its color, picture, and text to read
0/2 cant attack. Arrives: draw a card.
The (+3) was written on the gargoyle card itself so it will no carry over to the treant. However a +1 from garg exhauste would carry over since it is not printed on the card
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Hmmm in case of chaos mirror
Gargoyle
0/2 indestructible. cant attack or patrol
Chaos Mirror its attack to be 5/2
Pay 1. Now it is
5/2 flying. +3atk.
MT into Y.Treant
0/2 cant attack arrives:draw
A printed (+3atk) abillity wont carry over
You wasted 1g plus 2g and card (Chaos mirror)
(Though one opponent unit now probably have 0 atk from the original atk switch)
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Another scenario
Gargoyle
0/2 indestructible. cant attack or patrol
Pay 1. Now it is
0/2. flying. +3atk.
Chaos Mirror its attack to be 5/2. The other end of CM will become 0atk not 3atk
It is now 5/2 . flying. +3atk.
MT into Y.Treant
0/2 cant attack arrives:draw
Printed (+3atk) wont carry over
You wasted 1g plus 2g and card (Chaos mirror)
(Though one opponent unit probably have 0 atk now)
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