Rules Questions thread

Sparkshot and overpower are combat abilities; unlike triggered abilities, they don’t go into the queue at all… they just modify the behavior of combat damage as it’s dealt, and the sparkshot and overpower damage is dealt at the same time as the attacker’s normal combat damage. So, for example, if there were (3/3) Brave Knights patrolling as Elite and Scavenger, and you attacked one with a (5/X) Sparkshot, overpower unit, it could kill both, and if the defender had 2 Second Chances in play, both Brave Knights would be returned to play.

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The timing rules have to do with how the state of the game is calculated, and when. Triggered abilities resolve, then calculate the game state, then move onto the next triggered ability.

Combat damage isnt a triggered ability, or of it does bheave like one, the entirety of it happens, then the game state is calculated. So, If that is true, then overpower would not hit vandy in that example.

What is meant by simultaneous is that all the things happen, then the game state is recalculated. What died, where things went, how much damage ended up on various targets, any triggered abilities, are all calculated after the combat damage has been done.

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We have a ruling from the highest instance handed to us in Discord to reinforce your judgement :slight_smile:

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Posting @Unity’s question here

So the first thought I have: it may seem unthematic, but there’s generally small edge cases that are correct by the rules, even if they don’t quite match the themeing. The important details are that Blackhand has a requirement (the hero has to have died previously during the game) and an effect (the hero is brought into play at max level).

Second thought: this seems like a case of “specific trumps general”; Snapback blocks all summons, Blackhand allows a specific type of summon, so that overrides Snapback. I could be wrong about that, though.

EDIT: don’t mind me, the better rule to follow is probably “‘can’t’ trumps ‘can’”, so Snapback would block Blackhand’s effect.

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I suspect the intended behavior here is that Blackhand Resurrector can summon the hero, because:

  1. Blackhand Resurrector has been ruled to bypass every other restriction on being able to summon heroes, including cooldown time after death and even the hero limit from buildings.
  2. I suspect Snapback is intended to put the returned hero on cooldown as if it were killed, and since that means the hero can’t normally be summoned until after the owner’s next turn, that’s how the card was worded.

Per rules as written, I’m inclined to agree with your edited reasoning that Blackhand Resurrector wouldn’t work, however, but per rules as written, I’d also be inclined to say that BR wouldn’t be able to summon a hero that recently died, or one that exceeds the hero limit. Perhaps BR should have been worded “… -> Put a hero … into play…” similar to Snapback.

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Paging @sharpobject! How do Blackhand Resurrector and Snapback interact if the hero that’s been Snapped Back already died that game?

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Hey,

Snapback says in part “It can’t be summoned until after its owner’s next turn.” Blackhand Resurrector says in part “Summon a hero from your command zone.”

The way this works in general is that text on cards beats text in the rulebook and text that says you can’t do a thing beats text that says you can or must do the thing. In this case, “It can’t be summoned” on a card (Snapback) will prevail over any other card’s efforts to summon the hero.

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For searchability sake, I wanted to link to a rules discussion that resulted from a tense XCAPS19 game, and @sharpobject if you are able to chime in with official confirmation that’d be swell :slight_smile:

Situation is that one player (@Marto) controls a Blooming Ancient during the opponent (@bansa)'s turn, and the opponent plays Terras Q, the Shackled, granting the player 4 warlock tokens. The general consensus reached was that the Blooming Ancient would receive 4 +1/1 runes, one for each warlock, as they arrived under his control with the arrival of Terras Q.

See here for full context, pretty spectacular to see a TerrasQ + Discord combo get immediately countered by raw combat damage like that!

It would follow that the same would apply for Final Showdown (or any other card I’m forgetting?) and the two Hunter tokens given an opponent in control of a BA.

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Those are some epic bushes.

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What’s the alternate possibility, that the warlocks wouldn’t grant +1/+1 counters to the ancient? What would be the reasoning for that happening?

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Yeah that’s what happens.

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Neglect? :wink:

No I don’t have a good argument to the contrary (perhaps there’s a reading of “One of your Units arrives” that doesn’t classify those tokens as “one of yours”?), just wanted to confirm since it got missed in the tourney game; I think it’s the first time I’ve seen a BA get runes on the opponent’s turn!

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Looking to clarify something:

Opponent has a Graveyard up. I cast Kidnapping and steal a unit, then kill it when it attacks. Does it go to the opponent’s discard (as it is controlled by me, and the Kidnapping clarifications suggest it goes to discard), or does it go to the opponent’s graveyard (as they technically own the unit)?

Here’s a link to the game it’s happening in for context

EDIT: I had searched “Kidnapping” but not “Kidnap” to see if this had been discussed before, but it looks like it has. Discard it is!

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Doubling up on my reply in the linked game for reference. Here’s EricF’s old reply:

This would be consistent with “your” referring to the controller unless stated otherwise, which I think is how most or all other cards work.

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I had a great casual game where I kidnapped a bone collector and buried it in my graveyard and then replayed it to my patrol zone. Glad to hear that was probably a legal move.

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Abomination gives everything -1/-1. Do you place a -1/-1 rune on all other units to track this? If a max level Orpal Gloor is in play, do all dying units (other than Abomination) activate its ability?
In general: is a -1/-1 always the same as a -1/-1 rune, or does it only count as a rune if the card specifically says so? (And likewise for +1/+1)

no to almost everything. Deteriorate gives -1/-1 but not a rune, so it does not ativate orpal’s maxband, same does abomination. it only count as a rune if the card specifically says so.
IE: +1 and -1 runes cancels each other, applying a -1 rune to something with spirit of the panda attached still has the -1 rune, cuz spirit of the panda gives +2+/+2 not runes.

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Reading through this thread left me with a couple of questions. The question of when to check the number of workers you have for determining whether or not you have to tech two cards seems to have been answered multiple ways.
sharpo confirming it’s at the end of your turn
sharpo saying it’s at the start of your turn

I’m also not clear on when you get gold for dying units in a FFA.
sharpo saying that Sirlin confirmed Sacrifice the Weak doesn’t give you money
sharpo giving a different ruling that seems to change this
Do all my opponent’s units that leave play during my turn yield me money in a FFA?

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For the first item, I am not sure how it works. Sharpo did indeed seem to give 2 conflicting answers. My inclination would be to use the more recent ruling in any such conflict.

For the second item, Sharpo specifically countered his previous ruling, due to input from Sirlin. Sacrifice the weak, and any other situation resulting in an enemy unit dieing regardless of the cause, will yield money in FFA.

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I think you’re right about the ruling regarding the FFA gold. And in general I’d agree that later rulings are more relevant. But in the case of tech timing Sharpo didn’t seem too sure the second time, and it doesn’t read like a correction. I think if he would’ve intended to overrule himself he’d have stated that.
That, coupled with the knowledge that the player mats have the tech phase at the end of your turn, lead me to guess there’s a good chance the earlier ruling is right in this case. Otherwise, what’s the tech phase doing at the end of your turn on the player mat?

: EDIT: And I guess I don’t like that if this were checked at the start of your turn there is a possibility that you only know you have to tech right before it’s your turn. Even though it’s not common, I don’t see the point of halting the flow of the game this way.

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