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Penatronic [Strength]/balance/necromancy vs payprplayn [monoblack]


#1

@payprplayn gl hf! I wasn’t actually waiting, just went to bed.

"P1T1


StartingHand Workers

STARTING HAND
Aged Sensei
Fox Viper
Snapback
Sensei’s Advice
Morningstar Flagbearer


WORKERS
Morningstar Flagbearer
Fox Primus


NextHand

Safe Attacking
Grappling Hook
Smoker
Savior Monk


Discard

Snapback
Fox Viper
Sensei’s Advice


Tech 0 card(s)
Get Paid - ($4)
Worker - ($3)
play aged sensei - ($2)
summon Rook - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 3, draw 5


[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]

  • :psblueshield: [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Rook (2/4A)
  • :psfist: [I]Elite[/I]:
  • :ps_: [I]Scavenger[/I]: Aged Sensei (1/1)
  • :pschip: [I]Technician[/I]:
  • :target: [I]Lookout[/I]:
    [B]In Play:[/B]

[B]Buildings:[/B]

  • :heart: Base HP: 20

[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 0
  • Disc: 3
    [B]Gold:[/B]
  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 6
Thoughts

flag bearer doesn’t seem that good vs mono black. seems pretty good to get sensei p1t1

"


#2

I see. That would have been my guess given the hour, except that I posted my response literally 1 minute after you posted your offer, and I thought it was unlikely that you posted the offer and then immediately logged out, so I figured you must be waiting for something. I guess that’s exactly what you did, though. In any case, GLHF, I’m delighted to be playing with you :smile:

Player 2 Turn 1


[details=StartingHand Workers]

[spoiler]STARTING HAND
Poisonblade Rogue
Skeleton Javelineer
Summon Skeletons
Skeletal Archery
Thieving Imp


WORKERS
Summon Skeletons


[/spoiler][/details]

[details=NextHand]

[spoiler]Graveyard
Sacrifice the Weak
Pestering Haunt
Jandra, the Negator
Deteriorate


[/spoiler][/details]

[details=Discard]

[spoiler]Skeleton Javelineer
Thieving Imp
Skeletal Archery


[/spoiler][/details]
Tech 0 card(s)
Get Paid - ($5)
Worker - ($4)
Pabst Blue Ribbon - ($2)
Orpal Gloor - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 3, draw 5


[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]

  • :psblueshield: [I]Squad Leader[/I]: PBR (2/1+A)
  • :psfist: [I]Elite[/I]: Orpal lvl 1 (2/3, damage as -1/-1)
  • :ps_: [I]Scavenger[/I]:
  • :pschip: [I]Technician[/I]:
  • :target: [I]Lookout[/I]:

[B]In Play:[/B]

[B]Buildings:[/B]

  • :heart: Base HP: 20

[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 0
  • Disc: 3

[B]Gold:[/B]

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 6

[details=Thoughts]

[spoiler]

I’ve heard people saying the black starter is one of the strongest. I can see why-- there are a lot of strong cards in it (Deteriorate, Graveyard, Imp), but I’ve struggled with it a fair amount. I think, though I’m certainly not experienced enough yet to say so with confidence, that while it might be the strongest long-term, and can often help to dominate board states in the early game, thanks to its cheap removal, it’s more sensitive to draws than other starters. Not having any 2-hp units for less than 3 cost is pretty rough, particularly in cases like this. I also always seem to draw both my removal spells on P1T1, for instance. In any case, my point is, I don’t like my draw. I’d like to lead of with Vandy, but I see no way to do that safely. If I had either of my removal spells, I’d be much happier.

As I see it, I have 2 options. The first is to play Orpal in Elite behind either PBR or Javelineer. This won’t guarantee my hero’s safety, by any means, but it will punish him for killing it. Rook becomes a lot less scary with two -1/-1 runes on him. While I like the idea of floating a gold, I think PBR is the better blocker in this case, because it’s a threat that needs to be dealt with. Javelineer could be safely left alive, but PBR forces him to kill it or risk -1/-1 runes on his hero next turn. It also trades better against a sensei’s advice/grappling hook play.

The second option is to play Garth+Jav+Skeleton Token and patrol both skeletons, but not Garth. This is the only way I see to guarantee I still have a hero on turn 2 (though snapback means it might not be the same hero). I’d likely put the token in SQL, and the javelineer in scav. I’d go scav/tech in most cases against the same board, but I don’t like patroling in tech on turn 1 unless I played two cards. I don’t want to trigger a reshuffle before I get my first tech choices in.

Weighing these options against each other, they seem to shake out as follows: Option 1 gives me better board presence, the second gives (potentially) better economy, and greater security. The first gives me Orpal, the second gives me Garth. I tend to prefer board presence over economy, particularly since I’m P2, so already have an economic advantage and a board disadvantage, and the former will stop mattering if I let the latter get too large. Comparing the heroes, Garth provides better answers to Rook (Nether Drain, Doom Grasp), whereas Orpal has good ones as well (Spreading Plague, Carrion Curse to take out Bird’s Nest), and is a bigger combat threat, but lacks the chump blockers and draw potential Garth provides.

A third option that just occured to me would be to play Imp+Javelineer and patrol in tech. This provides cover for Vandy to come out next turn if he leaves them alive, and if he doesn’t, I recoup the card loss, and Vandy + removal is likely safe. In fact, since I’m a mono deck, my tech 1/hero’s hall (I haven’t decided which I want yet) is cheaper, which really opens up my options. I could go midband Vandy + tech 1 next turn, or if I patrol in scav and he kills it, I could even Midband Vandy + Heroes’ Hall. I also have deteriorate and pestering haunt in my pocket, which give me good options for playing a card down even as I spend all my gold on Vandy. This may be my most aggressive option. Vandy is certainly the scariest of my heroes, but her spells, while amazing, are the weakest at countering the Rook/Birds’ Nest play. Shadow blade can slow down his draws, but it can’t hurt rook if he doesn’t patrol. Dark Pact speeds up my draws, but doesn’t improve my board state on its own. This seems like a strong option, but it’s one that focuses on developing my own threats, rather than preparing to counter his, which is a bit risky as P2, though Vandy is certainly capable of it. Also, a big part of early Vandy play is the threat of Metamorphosis, and Snapback goes a long way toward neutralizing that threat.

Hmm… three options, all with pros and cons, and all interesting. The more I think about it, the more I think that Imp + Javelineer into Vandy is probably the right play. However, I’ve been playing a lot with Vandy and Garth lately, and I’m interested in a change of pace, so I’ll go with the Orpal play and see where that gets me. No clue on my tech choices yet, though plague spitter seems likely as a way to at least delay Birds’ Nest shenanigans while I figure out a way to get rid of Rook. My other tech choice will depend on what happens here. Man, soul stone on Plague Spitter seems nasty, almost enough to make me reconsider the Vandy play, but not quite. I just want to try Orpal, if I’m being honest, so that’s what I’m going to do.
[/spoiler][/details]


#3

"P1T2


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Bird’s Nest
Bone Collector


STARTING HAND
Smoker
Fox Primus
Grappling Hook
Savior Monk
Safe Attacking


WORKERS
Morningstar Flagbearer
Fox Primus


NextHand

Bird’s Nest
Sensei’s Advice
Smoker
Bone Collector


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($5)
Worker - ($4)
build t1 - ($2)
summon Savior monk - ($0)
Rook grappling hooks your hipster beer can to the lookout spot
Aged Sensei buffs Rook
Rook stomps Orpal, gets slime on his foot. (only one nasty rune due to sensei armor, I believe)

Float ($0)
Discard 2, reshuffle, draw 4


[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]

  • :psblueshield: [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Savior Monk (2/2A), healing 1
  • :psfist: [I]Elite[/I]:
  • :ps_: [I]Scavenger[/I]:
  • :pschip: [I]Technician[/I]:
  • :target: [I]Lookout[/I]:
    [B]In Play:[/B]
  • Rook (1/3), level 3, 1 -1/-1 rune
  • Aged Sensei (1/1)
    [B]Buildings:[/B]
  • :heart: Base HP: 20

[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 4
  • Disc: 0
    [B]Gold:[/B]
  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 6
Thoughts

not pumped about -1/-1 counters being a thing… I don’t think I have any way to remove them either. I think rook is safe this turn and teching birds is still OK. pretty lucky draw!

I should have put my Savior in the technician spot, forgot that pbr gets armor piercing too

"


#4

@Penatronic you’re right, the armor prevents one of the runes, I forgot about that. I probably would have played it differently had I remembered. Giving Rook 2 runes is probably worth letting him have a couple of free levels, 1 Rune, not so much. I’m working on my turn now BTW.


#5

Orpal in the elite slot is pretty sweet though… icky runes on Rook are worth more on him than any other hero I think


#6

That, I certainly agree with.

Player 2 Turn 2


[details=Tech StartingHand Workers]

[spoiler]TECH
Dark Pact
Plague Spitter


STARTING HAND
Graveyard
Pestering Haunt
Jandra, the Negator
Sacrifice the Weak
Deteriorate


WORKERS
Summon Skeletons
Jandra, the Negator


[/spoiler][/details]

[details=NextHand]

[spoiler]Sacrifice the Weak
Thieving Imp
Skeletal Archery
PBR


[/spoiler][/details]
Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($6)
PBR trades with Savior monk
midband Vandy - ($2)
Pestering Haunt
Deteriorate Aged Sensei
Tech 1 - ($1)
Worker - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 2, reshuffle, draw 4


[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]

  • :psblueshield: [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Vandy Level 3 (3/4+A resist 1)
  • :psfist: [I]Elite[/I]:
  • :ps_: [I]Scavenger[/I]:
  • :pschip: [I]Technician[/I]:
  • :target: [I]Lookout[/I]:

[B]In Play:[/B]

  • Pestering Haunt (1/1)

[B]Buildings:[/B]

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5

[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 5
  • Disc: 0

[B]Gold:[/B]

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 7

[details=Thoughts]


THOUGHTS?!! What do you mean, thoughts?! I don’t think!
[/details]


#7

if it makes you feel better, i fucked up a patrol order too… forgot the PBR has armor piercing… thought you’d have to invest more to kill the savior. Should have put it in technician.

"P1T3


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Bone Collector
Nether Drain


STARTING HAND
Bone Collector
Smoker
Bird’s Nest
Sensei’s Advice


WORKERS
Morningstar Flagbearer
Fox Primus
Sensei’s Advice


NextHand

Snapback
Grappling Hook
Fox Viper


Discard

Savior Monk (2/2), healing 1
Aged Sensei (1/1)
Bird’s Nest
Bone Collector
Nether Drain


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($6)
Worker - ($5)
Play Smoker - ($4)
Play Bone Collector - ($1)

Float ($1)
Discard 1, draw 3


[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]

  • :psblueshield: [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Smoker (1/1A)
  • :psfist: [I]Elite[/I]:
  • :ps_: [I]Scavenger[/I]:
  • :pschip: [I]Technician[/I]: Bone Collector (3/3)
  • :target: [I]Lookout[/I]:
    [B]In Play:[/B]
  • Rook (1/3), level 3, 1 -1/-1 rune
    [B]Buildings:[/B]
  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5

[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]

  • Hand: 3
  • Deck: 1
  • Disc: 5
    [B]Gold:[/B]
  • Gold: 1
  • Workers: 7
Thoughts

besides blowing that patrol order I’m not in a great spot here… If I want rook to survive and I assume he has a shadow blade in hand, I need two patrollers, neither of which can be taken out by the pestering haunt. that way he can’t hit rook w/ Vandy. Does he have the shadow blade, though? He just lost orpal so he could have teched them in this turn, then would have had to draw them… seems likely. Too bad I didnt draw Snapback this turn.

"


#8

Player 2 Turn 3


[details=Tech StartingHand Workers]

[spoiler]TECH
Nether Drain
Shadow Blade


STARTING HAND
Skeletal Archery
Thieving Imp
Sacrifice the Weak
PBR
Graveyard
Skeleton Javelineer


WORKERS
Summon Skeletons
Jandra, the Negator
Skeletal Archery


[/spoiler][/details]

[details=NextHand]

[spoiler]Deteriorate
Plague Spitter
Graveyard
Dark Pact


[/spoiler][/details]
Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($7)
Tap Vandy->Discard->Dark Pact - ($6)
Thieving Imp, you discard #3 of 3 - ($3)
Skeleton Javelineer - ($2)
Worker - ($1)

Float ($1)
Discard 2, draw 3, reshuffle, draw 1


[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]

  • :psblueshield: [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Thieving Imp (2/2+A)
  • :psfist: [I]Elite[/I]:
  • :ps_: [I]Scavenger[/I]:
  • :pschip: [I]Technician[/I]: Skeleton Javelineer (1/1)
  • :target: [I]Lookout[/I]:

[B]In Play:[/B]

  • Pestering Haunt (1/1)
  • Vandy Level 3 (3/4 resist 1)

[B]Buildings:[/B]

  • :heart: Base HP: 18
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5

[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 5
  • Disc: 0

[B]Gold:[/B]

  • Gold: 1
  • Workers: 8

[details=Thoughts]

By my calculations, This play will almost always work out. He can bounce Vandy with snapback, but he’s still hurting badly for cards. Other than that, the only way he removes Vandy is with Grappling Hook and Sensei’s advice, or with Entangling Vines, which I’m hoping he didn’t tech. If he does any of those, He goes dangerously low on cards, and if he doesn’t…----Record Skip— hold up, I just realized I can tap Vandy to dark pact for something better. If I get plague spitter, Deteriorate, or Shadow Blade, this all becomes way easier…wow. Just wow. I seriously could not have drawn any worse. Hopefully I can ride the card advantage to victory, because I’m about to have a serious board state crisis. I really hope his hand is as bad as mine was.
[/details]


#9

"P1T4


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Blackhand Resserector
Doom Grasp


STARTING HAND
Snapback
Fox Viper
Grappling Hook


WORKERS
Morningstar Flagbearer
Fox Primus
Sensei’s Advice
Grappling Hook


NextHand

Blackhand Resserector
Safe Attacking
Fox Viper


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + float - ($8)
discard 3 of 3
Worker - ($7)
smoker kills pestering haunt
Bone Collector kills imp, spawns a skele
Rook kills javvy skele
tech 2 - ($3)

Float ($3)
Discard 1, draw 1, reshuffle, draw 2


[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]

  • :psblueshield: [I]Squad Leader[/I]:
  • :psfist: [I]Elite[/I]:
  • :ps_: [I]Scavenger[/I]:
  • :pschip: [I]Technician[/I]: Skeleton (1/1)
  • :target: [I]Lookout[/I]:
    [B]In Play:[/B]
  • Rook (1/2), level 3, 1 -1/-1 rune
  • Bone Collector (3/1)
    [B]Buildings:[/B]
  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Necromancy)

[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]

  • Hand: 3
  • Deck: 8
  • Disc: 0
    [B]Gold:[/B]
  • Gold: 3
  • Workers: 8
Thoughts

I’m in a pickle here with my hand size and this spec has no real tricks for coming back. I need a hero hall or tech 2. Garth is my only card advantage. no point in leveling rook at this stage, he needs to die anyways. don’t know if I should have just teched 2 doom Grasp or 2 nether drain, grasp seems better vs vandy. I could buy a tower but doesn’t seem worth it since all he’s got is vandy right now.

"

Yer Discard is doing me a heckin mighty concern.


#10

Player 2 Turn 4


[details=Tech StartingHand Workers]

[spoiler]TECH
Cursed Crow
Abomination


STARTING HAND
Plague Spitter
Deteriorate
Dark Pact
Graveyard
Shadow Blade
Dark Pact
PBR
Nether Drain
Sacrifice the Weak


WORKERS
Summon Skeletons
Jandra, the Negator
Skeletal Archery
PBR


[/spoiler][/details]

[details=NextHand]

[spoiler]Cursed Crow
Skeleton Javelineer
Abomination
Graveyard
Nether Drain


[/spoiler][/details]
Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + float - ($9)
Technician Draw (before teching cards)
Dark Pact
Deteriorate Bone Collector
Shadow Blade skeleton (you draw 1, then discard #4 of 4 [chosen randomly]) - ($6)
Vandy hits Rook and kills him, levels to max. Maxband fizzles due to lack of units.
Tech II - ($2)
Worker - ($1)
Last minute Dark Pact

Float ($1)
Discard 4, reshuffle, draw 5


[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]

  • :psblueshield: [I]Squad Leader[/I]:
  • :psfist: [I]Elite[/I]:
  • :ps_: [I]Scavenger[/I]:
  • :pschip: [I]Technician[/I]:
  • :target: [I]Lookout[/I]:

[B]In Play:[/B]

  • Vandy Level 5 (4/5 resist 1)

[B]Buildings:[/B]

  • :heart: Base HP: 14
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Disease)

[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 8
  • Disc: 0

[B]Gold:[/B]

  • Gold: 1
  • Workers: 9

[details=Thoughts]

Not sure whether I should play my second Dark Pact here to make my next draw better. I’m deciding to do so at the last minute, but I’m not quite sure that it’s worth the 2 extra base damage. Abomination should be very strong against Necro tech II, and Cursed crow lets me continue to harass his hand size. He now needs to deal with Vandy or face Metamorphosis next turn, so I’ve got a lot of threats.
[/details]


#11

"P1T5


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Wight
Wight


STARTING HAND
Safe Attacking
Blackhand Resserector
Fox Viper
Snapback


WORKERS
Morningstar Flagbearer
Fox Primus
Sensei’s Advice
Grappling Hook


NextHand

Savior Monk (2/2), healing 1
Smoker (1/1)
Nether Drain
Bone Collector


Discard

Bone Collector (3/1)
Wight
Snapback
Safe Attacking
Fox Viper


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + float - ($11)
No worker
Summon Garth Forken - ($9)
Maxband Garth, bring out Wight - ($3)
play Blackhand Ressurector - ($1)
summon skele - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 2, draw 4


[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]

  • :psblueshield: [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Wight (4/4A)
  • :psfist: [I]Elite[/I]:
  • :ps_: [I]Scavenger[/I]:
  • :pschip: [I]Technician[/I]: Skeleton (1/1)
  • :target: [I]Lookout[/I]:
    [B]In Play:[/B]
  • Blackhand Ressurector (3/3)
  • L7 Garth Forken (3/4)
    [B]Buildings:[/B]
  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Necromancy)

[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 3
  • Disc: 5
    [B]Gold:[/B]
  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 8
Thoughts

Only saving grace is he’s still just on Vandy.

"


#12

Player 2 Turn 5


[details=Tech StartingHand Workers]

[spoiler]TECH
Plague Lord
Plague Lord


STARTING HAND
Abomination
Nether Drain
Graveyard
Cursed Crow
Skeleton Javelineer


WORKERS
Summon Skeletons
Jandra, the Negator
Skeletal Archery
PBR
Skeleton Javelineer


[/spoiler][/details]

[details=NextHand]

[spoiler]Shadow Blade
Plague Spitter
Pestering Haunt
Thieving Imp


[/spoiler][/details]

[details=Discard]

[spoiler]Nether Drain
Graveyard
Plague Lord
Plague Lord


[/spoiler][/details]
Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + float - ($10)
Worker - ($9)
Abomination- Skeleton Dies, you draw. you’re welcome. - ($3)
Vandy attacks wight, kills it, takes 3 damage.
Cursed Crow - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 2, draw 4


[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]

  • :psblueshield: [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Abomination (6/6+A other units get -1/-1)
  • :psfist: [I]Elite[/I]:
  • :ps_: [I]Scavenger[/I]:
  • :pschip: [I]Technician[/I]: Cursed Crow (2/2 flying)
  • :target: [I]Lookout[/I]:

[B]In Play:[/B]

  • Vandy Level 5 (4/2 resist 1)

[B]Buildings:[/B]

  • :heart: Base HP: 14
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Disease)

[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 4
  • Disc: 4

[B]Gold:[/B]

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 10

[details=Thoughts]

So that draw was kind of brutal. I wanted a tech II, sure, but not both of them. I almost played Metamorphosis this turn, but I wanted an Abomination out and Torken can’t fetch that. I really needed to have the Nether Drain in next turn’s hand. Instead I got it this turn and drew neither of my Dark Pacts for next turn. This one may be running away from me. On the other hand, I’m 2 workers ahead of him now. Maybe I can ride that economic advantage to a win.
[/details]

Edit @Penatronic redone


#13

"P1T6


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Hooded Executioner
Hooded Executioner


STARTING HAND
Nether Drain
Savior Monk (2/2), healing 1
Bone Collector
Smoker (1/1)
Bird’s Nest


WORKERS
Morningstar Flagbearer
Fox Primus
Sensei’s Advice
Grappling Hook
Smoker (1/1)


NextHand

Safe Attacking
Hooded Executioner
Doom Grasp
Aged Sensei (1/1)
Fox Viper


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($8)
technician draw
Worker - ($7)
blackhand Resserector brings back max level Rook
Build tower - ($4)
summon bone collector - ($2)

Float ($2)
Discard 3, draw 2, reshuffle, draw 3


[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]

  • :psblueshield: [I]Squad Leader[/I]: L8 Rook (4/6) 2 lives
  • :psfist: [I]Elite[/I]:
  • :ps_: [I]Scavenger[/I]:
  • :pschip: [I]Technician[/I]: Bone Collector (2/2)
  • :target: [I]Lookout[/I]:
    [B]In Play:[/B]
  • L7 Garth Forken (3/4)
    [B]Buildings:[/B]
  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Necromancy)

[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 9
  • Disc: 0
    [B]Gold:[/B]
  • Gold: 2
  • Workers: 9
Thoughts

not drawing my Doom Grasp hurts pretty bad

"


#14

Bone collector is 2/2 while Abomination is in play. I’ll post a turn tomorrow.


#15

Probably too late to fix this now (and it probably doesn’t matter anyway), but for future reference: You resolve the discard from Shadow Blade first, as it’s part of the effects of the spell. The technician draw resolves afterwards.


#16

Hmm… are you sure about that? It’s part of the spell’s effect, but it’s also a triggered effect. I interpreted its effect as simply creating the trigger, which then resolves based on the standard timing rules for triggered effects. If you’re right, it probably would matter, since #4 of 4 is likely to be the card that was just drawn. That’s actually why I specified [chosen randomly] at the end there. In many cases it would be sufficient for me to simply pick a number for my opponent to discard, since I have no knowledge of which cards are in his hand, but in this case, that wouldn’t work because his hand is split across a reshuffle and #4 would be the card he just drew.


#17

Yes. If you check the rules thread, there has been lots of extensive debate about exactly this interaction, because lots of people interpreted it the way you did. However, it has been clarified that the discard effect is not a triggered effect, it’s part of the resolution of the spell, and therefore must be done before any other triggered effects.


#18

Thanks, that’s good to know.


#19

Well, @Penatronic I’m willing to go back if you like. Would having that card have affected your next turn? Or more precisely, based on your knowledge of what that card was, do you think you are more likely to be helped or harmed by going back and having you discard a different random card. If you are more likely to be harmed, I vote we just keep going, since my mistake benefitted you. Also, am I correct in my belief that the card you discarded is the same card that you drew? If not, the whole thing is moot.


#20

This moment I can’t remember what I discarded. I did Interpret it as “draw a card, Discard the 4th down on the list of cards” which I think would actually have been 3 of 3 because the new card went to the top of my hand? Either way this is a casual game and I vote we keep going as is, it’s still not like I picked what card I removed.